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  #976  
Unread 02-11-2019, 03:22 PM
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southside_hitmen southside_hitmen is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rainmaker View Post
The attendance numbers here is something that actually proves my point. If you were to run an event with WWE in the data inside of Osaka, it wouldn't draw only 3,500 it'd draw twice that so the popularity is evidently wrong. In the heavily commerical tokyo, it is completely understandable that WWE draw a decent crowd due to the rarity of their hosted shows, especially when advertising Shinsuke Nakamura for the event (and then not having him actually appear lol). The rareness playing a factor is evident when WWE don't even draw anyhere near those numbers in USA standard live events or even for RAW a lot recently.
It really doesn't though. Pop doesn't scale 1-1 with real life attendance numbers in the game. No one should go into this expecting "real" attendance numbers at shows as the game engine for pop is not scaled that way.

Like Fleisch mentioned, there are certain levels a company needs to be at to maintain a certain size. What's important is where it fits compared to the other companies in the game region in regards to pop. WWE had the biggest shows of any company not named NJPW in Tokyo (on back to back nights) and also the biggest non-NJPW show in Osaka as well for all of 2018.

WWE's pop is the 2nd highest in Japan right now (65 - 5 points higher than DDT/DG) and I'm absolutely open to walking them back to somewhere just at or below those other two. I'm not open to pushing them back much farther than that though as it's going to throw off scaling in other areas.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rainmaker View Post
Also I'm not putting too much stock into the poll. It's literally a reflection of who the Japanese public think of and like the most, aka who is the most popular. Yes, some are sort of joke entries but Jiro and Andreza are still very over, they wouldn't recieve so many votes otherwise. The fact that less than a dozen WWE wrestlers appear on the list and all that do spent significant time in Japan is in my opinion a pretty justified reason for me to say "Why is Roman Reigns at 80 popularity in Japan whilst Sanada is at 53? or why is The Miz more over than Kento Miyahara?".

I'm not trying to be mean with this btw. It's just the most unbalanced region in the data atm which is a shame because it's the second most important region in wrestling. Everywhere else has it's little problems but is for the most part great and both Fleisch and hitmen have done great jobs. Just Japan is the one that's most blaringly incorrect right now.
Pop is not how many people know this person exists as represented by the game engine. Pop is drawing power and card position. This is not my personal opinion, it comes right from Derek_B's mod-making guide.

Quote:
The most important thing is to avoid confusing recognisability with popularity
A fan poll is A data point to gauge the above, but it should not be the ONLY data point you consider. Again, it would be madness to consider Ikemen as the 6th most over person in Japan if we are just going off the list. Jiro isn't drawing people to K-Hall like someone like Kento does, but ranks 20 spots higher on the fan poll.

You should also look at where people rank on their card (how many Dominion/WK's has Naito main evented compared to those other two? When Naito is headlining does the show do 15% more fans?)

I'm not debating that Naito is a huge draw (Which is why I raised him to be within 1 point of Tana and the same level as Okada this release). I'm pointing out that just because he wins a fan poll and moves merch he shouldn't automatically be WAY higher than Tana/Okada without looking at other factors. He's got top 3 pop in Japan, should prob have great momentum and a great gimmick to reflect how "hot" LIJ is right now.

---

I do these releases because:
1) I didn't want Fleisch's awesome mod to ride off in to the sunset after he felt burnt out dealing with many of the issues like above
and 2) I enjoy doing them for the community

Neither of the above are true after the interactions in this thread the last couple of days.

I have no desire to try and rush something out the door for Friday just so people can rip it apart.

I'll happily pass along the additional edits I've made to Fleisch since last Friday, but I likely won't be releasing another update anytime soon. I may pick it back up at a later date.

To those that posted thank you's and suggested changes, I really do appreciate it. Thanks for your help.

In the meantime, feel free to make like Gargano & Ciampa and #DIY instead
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  #977  
Unread 02-11-2019, 03:23 PM
rhyblack rhyblack is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JMike View Post
- AEW should have non aggression pacts with NJPW and ROH. Maybe hostility with Impact?
What would warrant a Hostility relationship with Impact? Esspecially when they've taken more talent from ROH and NJPW than Impact even has lol
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  #978  
Unread 02-11-2019, 03:42 PM
Darkestearth Darkestearth is offline
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Just want to say great mod, the detail in this can be seen by anybody and as you are teaming up with my favourite pic pack too. This truly is brilliant and find it amazing that you not only update after release but release every three months.

As someone that has created mods for myself in the past, I know how tedious and minuet every detail and change can be and this is by far the best I have tried. Great work!

UPDATE: Only just seen the response by some of you, do you really think acting the way you have is the right way to go about things? If you don't like something in the mod, change it yourself! Don't wait for someone else to create a mod and then bitch about what they have done, you look like ungrateful nobs...
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  #979  
Unread 02-11-2019, 04:04 PM
HRTVAndrew HRTVAndrew is offline
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Originally Posted by Darkestearth View Post
UPDATE: Only just seen the response by some of you, do you really think acting the way you have is the right way to go about things? If you don't like something in the mod, change it yourself! Don't wait for someone else to create a mod and then bitch about what they have done, you look like ungrateful nobs...
This, this, this, ALL of this.

Admittedly, I'm biased, because southside is a friend of mine, but I feel it's responsible to point out that, should you want to edit parts of the mod to reflect your own personal tastes, the "editor" button is very easy to access. Choosing to instead sit back and throw stones at someone who's devoting lots of time and energy, for no reward other than the enjoyment of the community, is an incredibly bad look.
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  #980  
Unread 02-11-2019, 04:35 PM
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If you got enough people helping you, would you consider making this a monthly updated mod?
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  #981  
Unread 02-11-2019, 05:00 PM
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Did you really just quit the mod because I gave a minor critique on one part and praised you on every other aspect of it? I even said you did a great job on every region and aspect with Japan just being the most unbalanced.

Also I have fixed the mod in the editor myself. I just gave suggestions so not everyone would have to do that. As you are the guy who controls the release of the data, I would give these suggestions to you? Apologies if this somehow ruined it for you but feedback always entails negative aspects as well as positive. The positive outways the negative here btw.

In case you missed it:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rainmaker View Post
I'm not trying to be mean with this btw. It's just the most unbalanced region in the data atm which is a shame because it's the second most important region in wrestling. Everywhere else has it's little problems but is for the most part great and both Fleisch and hitmen have done great jobs. Just Japan is the one that's most blaringly incorrect right now.
(This will be the last I say on this btw, I don't want to clog the thread and neither should any of us)
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  #982  
Unread 02-11-2019, 05:58 PM
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Fleisch Fleisch is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheCed View Post
If you got enough people helping you, would you consider making this a monthly updated mod?
I cant speak for Southside, but I released this monthly for a few years and 2 days after release I'd have to start updating again to make sure I could get the mod out on time for the next month. It was exhausting and killed any motivation I had which saw the effort I was putting in start to decline.

Teams working on mods very rarely work due to opinions differing on certain aspects and you can end up with a really disjointed mod. Plus you then have to either;
A - Work around each other's schedules to pass the mod around or B - You need someone to pull everyone's work together into 1 mod from their various databases and try to balance everything (an absolute nightmare).

That is not to say if someone wanted to do an "unofficial" monthly update using it, I wouldn't say they couldn't so long as they used the read me file that contains thanks to all those who have helped in the past/present.

I will take this back for an April release and then we shall see what happens after that. I'd like to say a massive Thank You to Southside_Hitmen and all those who have helped with feedback etc... because if S_H had not taken it over, RWC would no longer be around. I look forward to collaborating on a data set we can be proud of in the future because I cannot even tell you how much this mod has improved due to Southside_Hitmen and Dr. Avalanches input, especially the joshi scene that I'd neglected for so long.
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  #983  
Unread 02-11-2019, 06:24 PM
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southside_hitmen southside_hitmen is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fleisch View Post
I cant speak for Southside, but I released this monthly for a few years and 2 days after release I'd have to start updating again to make sure I could get the mod out on time for the next month. It was exhausting and killed any motivation I had which saw the effort I was putting in start to decline.

Teams working on mods very rarely work due to opinions differing on certain aspects and you can end up with a really disjointed mod. Plus you then have to either;
A - Work around each other's schedules to pass the mod around or B - You need someone to pull everyone's work together into 1 mod from their various databases and try to balance everything (an absolute nightmare).

That is not to say if someone wanted to do an "unofficial" monthly update using it, I wouldn't say they couldn't so long as they used the read me file that contains thanks to all those who have helped in the past/present.

I will take this back for an April release and then we shall see what happens after that. I'd like to say a massive Thank You to Southside_Hitmen and all those who have helped with feedback etc... because if S_H had not taken it over, RWC would no longer be around. I look forward to collaborating on a data set we can be proud of in the future because I cannot even tell you how much this mod has improved due to Southside_Hitmen and Dr. Avalanches input, especially the joshi scene that I'd neglected for so long.
Thanks for the kind words Fleisch. It goes without saying that the basis for this mod would not be there without you're work, so I'm appreciative for letting me carry the ball for a bit.

I'm not "quitting the mod" I'm just not rushing anything out by Friday. I'll do what I did for the previous couple releases for Fleisch and go through what I would like to with a fine-tooth comb and suggesting edits.

You can consider the release from last Friday as the one for February.

I'll continue plugging away with edits until flashpoint is out from Fleisch and then Fleisch can take it from there for April.
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  #984  
Unread 02-11-2019, 07:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkestearth View Post
UPDATE: Only just seen the response by some of you, do you really think acting the way you have is the right way to go about things? If you don't like something in the mod, change it yourself! Don't wait for someone else to create a mod and then bitch about what they have done, you look like ungrateful nobs...
Hello.

I'm going to use the above as an example exercise. A lot of the discussion on the last few pages has been fairly civil as far as discourse goes on the internet. Posts like the quoted however don't help anyone and break one of the few rules we have (these rules can be viewed on the stickied rules thread). Keep the discussion civil, anything further should be taken to PMs.
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  #985  
Unread 02-11-2019, 08:08 PM
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Sooooo... Mason Kreed (Me) has an ACL tear now... Fun...
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  #986  
Unread 02-11-2019, 11:33 PM
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southside_hitmen southside_hitmen is offline
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Alright, I feel like I owe a little post-mortem after my mini-meltdown above.

Let me first say that the majority of pressure for each release is put entirely on myself, by myself. I'm a bit of a perfectionist/completest and as my wife would surely tell you I don't take criticism well. I know this is the exact opposite attitude of what someone building a modern day mod that the data changes underneath you on each release should undertake, and I'll admit that I had a bad day.

————-

To Rainmaker,
You seem like a good dude with the same goal in mind as me, making Japan feel like it does in real-life. Anyone that brings in Kento to NJPW and puts him is over is a good brother in my book. I can't echo enough that I generally agree that WWE folks need to brought down overall in the mod for Japan pop, and it's on a very long "to-do" list for me going forward.
Me saying that "I'm out" on the next release is much more a reflection of where I am personally than anything you said or did in the thread, and to be honest was not really directed at you in any way but more-so a commentary on some of the comments in the thread at large. If I made you feel in any way that me opting out of the next release was to due to you, I apologize, as it really wasn't. (This was bound to happen as I'm a self-professed Kawada fan, so the Misawa-Kawada fued continues...)

—————

However, I've seen this road in Fleisch's/TheWho87’s releases previously where there is an expectation/sense of "owing" people perfect data that creeps up in Real World Mods more than any other. The expectation of everything being "right" is way too much for any one person to handle, and besides today, I feel like I have handled it pretty well.

However, when people leave comments like "I'm kind of pissed that" or "sorry to say this" etc... it eats away at you after dumping 400+ hours into a mod that you are just trying to keep going after the great foundation Fleisch has built for this thing. We are all trying to do our best to serve the community at large, no one is trying to sabotage or put out bad data. I was pretty clear that I viewed last Friday's release as a WIP one, but apparently that didn't resonate they way I hoped.

Anyway, to anyone I freaked out I apologize. I'm just trying to make this thing great for all. If you'd like to help, get in the boat and row with me.

I'll continue to make edits and hand this back over to the king, Fleisch, and I'm sure he will make the April release a great one.

Last edited by southside_hitmen : 02-12-2019 at 12:46 AM.
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  #987  
Unread 02-12-2019, 01:13 AM
kdcastles kdcastles is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by southside_hitmen View Post
Alright, I feel like I owe a little post-mortem after my mini-meltdown above.

Let me first say that the majority of pressure for each release is put entirely on myself, by myself. I'm a bit of a perfectionist/completest and as my wife would surely tell you I don't take criticism well. I know this is the exact opposite attitude of what someone building a modern day mod that the data changes underneath you on each release should undertake, and I'll admit that I had a bad day.

-

To Rainmaker,
You seem like a good dude with the same goal in mind as me, making Japan feel like it does in real-life. Anyone that brings in Kento to NJPW and puts him is over is a good brother in my book. I can't echo enough that I generally agree that WWE folks need to brought down overall in the mod for Japan pop, and it's on a very long "to-do" list for me going forward.
Me saying that "I'm out" on the next release is much more a reflection of where I am personally than anything you said or did in the thread, and to be honest was not really directed at you in any way but more-so a commentary on some of the comments in the thread at large. If I made you feel in any way that me opting out of the next release was to due to you, I apologize, as it really wasn't. (This was bound to happen as I'm a self-professed Kawada fan, so the Misawa-Kawada fued continues...)



However, I've seen this road in Fleisch's/TheWho87s releases previously where there is an expectation/sense of "owing" people perfect data that creeps up in Real World Mods more than any other. The expectation of everything being "right" is way too much for any one person to handle, and besides today, I feel like I have handled it pretty well.

However, when people leave comments like "I'm kind of pissed that" or "sorry to say this" etc... it eats away at you after dumping 400+ hours into a mod that you are just trying to keep going after the great foundation Fleisch has built for this thing. We are all trying to do our best to serve the community at large, no one is trying to sabotage or put out bad data. I was pretty clear that I viewed last Friday's release as a WIP one, but apparently that didn't resonate they way I hoped.

Anyway, to anyone I freaked out I apologize. I'm just trying to make this thing great for all. If you'd like to help, get in the boat and row with me.

I'll continue to make edits and hand this back over to the king, Fleisch, and I'm sure he will make the April release a great one.
Brother, I appreciate all the work you and Fleisch did on this mod, and look forward to playing it. I will say there are some stat updates I disagree with, but they are easy enough to fix before I start my game. I have held off because you said an update was coming this Friday. Before I jump into this, am I reading your last post correctly, and there will be an update Friday?

Again, I appreciate your hard work and, with no disrespect to Who, think this is the best modern day real world mod in the community. I hope you and Fleisch continue working on this and providing me with hours of enjoyment that my wife can't stand.
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  #988  
Unread 02-12-2019, 04:40 AM
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Dave E Mac Dave E Mac is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by southside_hitmen View Post
Alright, I feel like I owe a little post-mortem after my mini-meltdown above.

Let me first say that the majority of pressure for each release is put entirely on myself, by myself. I'm a bit of a perfectionist/completest and as my wife would surely tell you I don't take criticism well. I know this is the exact opposite attitude of what someone building a modern day mod that the data changes underneath you on each release should undertake, and I'll admit that I had a bad day.

-

To Rainmaker,
You seem like a good dude with the same goal in mind as me, making Japan feel like it does in real-life. Anyone that brings in Kento to NJPW and puts him is over is a good brother in my book. I can't echo enough that I generally agree that WWE folks need to brought down overall in the mod for Japan pop, and it's on a very long "to-do" list for me going forward.
Me saying that "I'm out" on the next release is much more a reflection of where I am personally than anything you said or did in the thread, and to be honest was not really directed at you in any way but more-so a commentary on some of the comments in the thread at large. If I made you feel in any way that me opting out of the next release was to due to you, I apologize, as it really wasn't. (This was bound to happen as I'm a self-professed Kawada fan, so the Misawa-Kawada fued continues...)



However, I've seen this road in Fleisch's/TheWho87s releases previously where there is an expectation/sense of "owing" people perfect data that creeps up in Real World Mods more than any other. The expectation of everything being "right" is way too much for any one person to handle, and besides today, I feel like I have handled it pretty well.

However, when people leave comments like "I'm kind of pissed that" or "sorry to say this" etc... it eats away at you after dumping 400+ hours into a mod that you are just trying to keep going after the great foundation Fleisch has built for this thing. We are all trying to do our best to serve the community at large, no one is trying to sabotage or put out bad data. I was pretty clear that I viewed last Friday's release as a WIP one, but apparently that didn't resonate they way I hoped.

Anyway, to anyone I freaked out I apologize. I'm just trying to make this thing great for all. If you'd like to help, get in the boat and row with me.

I'll continue to make edits and hand this back over to the king, Fleisch, and I'm sure he will make the April release a great one.
I can imagine the negative comments do chip away at you.

I will say I've never commented on here before, but I really enjoy this mod, played it loads always blown away by the level of detail and effort that has gone into it. I guess there are probably lots of us using this mod that don't take the time to give the thanks it deserves.
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  #989  
Unread 02-12-2019, 10:01 AM
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southside_hitmen southside_hitmen is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave E Mac View Post
I can imagine the negative comments do chip away at you.

I will say I've never commented on here before, but I really enjoy this mod, played it loads always blown away by the level of detail and effort that has gone into it. I guess there are probably lots of us using this mod that don't take the time to give the thanks it deserves.
Thanks for the kind words

Quote:
Originally Posted by kdcastles View Post
Brother, I appreciate all the work you and Fleisch did on this mod, and look forward to playing it. I will say there are some stat updates I disagree with, but they are easy enough to fix before I start my game. I have held off because you said an update was coming this Friday. Before I jump into this, am I reading your last post correctly, and there will be an update Friday?

Again, I appreciate your hard work and, with no disrespect to Who, think this is the best modern day real world mod in the community. I hope you and Fleisch continue working on this and providing me with hours of enjoyment that my wife can't stand.
Thank you.

No, I will not be releasing an update Friday.

Beyond that, I don't know. I will edit the file on my end until Fleisch gives me the all clear that he's ready to work on it. I'll then pass it over to him for an April release.

If I reach a point where I'm "happy" with the data before then, I'll post it here, but I'm not committing to any specific date and can't give you a timeline as I'm not even sure I will release an update before passing it over.

Sorry I can't be more specific, as I know people look forward to each release, but that's where I'm at right now.
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  #990  
Unread 02-12-2019, 10:18 AM
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Powerbrock100 Powerbrock100 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by southside_hitmen View Post
Alright, I feel like I owe a little post-mortem after my mini-meltdown above.

Let me first say that the majority of pressure for each release is put entirely on myself, by myself. I'm a bit of a perfectionist/completest and as my wife would surely tell you I don't take criticism well. I know this is the exact opposite attitude of what someone building a modern day mod that the data changes underneath you on each release should undertake, and I'll admit that I had a bad day.

————-

To Rainmaker,
You seem like a good dude with the same goal in mind as me, making Japan feel like it does in real-life. Anyone that brings in Kento to NJPW and puts him is over is a good brother in my book. I can't echo enough that I generally agree that WWE folks need to brought down overall in the mod for Japan pop, and it's on a very long "to-do" list for me going forward.
Me saying that "I'm out" on the next release is much more a reflection of where I am personally than anything you said or did in the thread, and to be honest was not really directed at you in any way but more-so a commentary on some of the comments in the thread at large. If I made you feel in any way that me opting out of the next release was to due to you, I apologize, as it really wasn't. (This was bound to happen as I'm a self-professed Kawada fan, so the Misawa-Kawada fued continues...)

—————

However, I've seen this road in Fleisch's/TheWho87’s releases previously where there is an expectation/sense of "owing" people perfect data that creeps up in Real World Mods more than any other. The expectation of everything being "right" is way too much for any one person to handle, and besides today, I feel like I have handled it pretty well.

However, when people leave comments like "I'm kind of pissed that" or "sorry to say this" etc... it eats away at you after dumping 400+ hours into a mod that you are just trying to keep going after the great foundation Fleisch has built for this thing. We are all trying to do our best to serve the community at large, no one is trying to sabotage or put out bad data. I was pretty clear that I viewed last Friday's release as a WIP one, but apparently that didn't resonate they way I hoped.

Anyway, to anyone I freaked out I apologize. I'm just trying to make this thing great for all. If you'd like to help, get in the boat and row with me.

I'll continue to make edits and hand this back over to the king, Fleisch, and I'm sure he will make the April release a great one.
You and Fleisch don't get enough comments or credit for in all honestly keeping this game alive for alot and providing TEWtubers a mod to make content on. Having no 2nd update is not the end of the world anyone can make the edits posted on this forum themselves and it will have the same effect. Thanks for all the hard work as always.

Last edited by Powerbrock100 : 02-12-2019 at 10:40 AM.
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