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  #2266  
Unread 06-25-2019, 02:42 PM
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Originally Posted by shawn michaels View Post
Charisma and star quality should probably be one stat. You can't have "IT" if you're not charismatic. And that new skill should be apart from the rest of the promo skills. Maybe the whole other entertainment skills could be merged and Charisma would be its own thing. It's different to know how to do a promo and to be a charismatic person. Those two are not exclusive and even a guy who is great at spouting lines will not necessarily be charismatic.
Nathan Jones had the look of a star, but wasn't charismatic at all

Mike Sanders had charisma but no star quality.

Strongly disagree that Star quality and charisma are the same thing.
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  #2267  
Unread 06-25-2019, 02:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Jaysin View Post
Nathan Jones had the look of a star, but wasn't charismatic at all

Mike Sanders had charisma but no star quality.

Strongly disagree that Star quality and charisma are the same thing.
Strong disagree; ”star quality” is just a different way to say ”charisma”. Having ”it” is just a different way to say having charisma. Nathan Jones had a look, but he wasn’t charismatic. Menace and size are already covered in the game. And the reason Mike Sanders lacked star quality was indeed because he wasn’t quite charismatic enough, and he also lacked size in his era to stand out.
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  #2268  
Unread 06-25-2019, 02:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Mammoth View Post
Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't believe Adam has said that's how it's calculated now. I think people may be getting this idea from his reply to my question here but he was referring to how the data will be converted from TEW16 to TEW20. The new "Technical Wrestling" skill will be taken from either "Mat Wrestling", "Chain Wrestling" or "Submissions", depending on which is the highest statistic.
From the Dev Journal entry today... The Mat Wrestling, Chain Wrestling and Submissions skills have now been consolidated into one, a skill called Technical Wrestling. This change makes things more intuitive for players and reduces the workload on database makers, whilst removing a needless over-complication given that the three original skills were always considered as one by the game anyway.

Logan Wolfsbaine in the CVerse has 72 chain wrestling, 78 mat work, and 38 in submissions. Therefore the game is going to consider him a 78 in technical wrestling... but how will it portray the fact that he isn't that great at submissions? That is my question and that's what I'm concerned about. Countless other examples of workers in the CVerse whose numbers for these three skills aren't all similar.
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  #2269  
Unread 06-25-2019, 03:04 PM
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#55: Merchandise figures and cuts, stables and products, clearing the decks

Workers now have individual merchandise sales figures each month. This gives the user a more accurate view of what is happening, is more realistic, adds a new revenue stream, and adds extra strategic elements (for example, you may give a big merch seller leeway when it comes to bad behaviour or avoid turning them heel because of how much extra money he or she brings in).
This is an outdated mindset. Orton has always been one of WWE's top merch sellers despite being a heel most of his career.

The nWo were the biggest merch movers for WCW despite being heel

The Shield were big merch sellers despite being heels.

CM Punk while heel did great numbers.

Selling merch has more to do with how over someone is more than whether they're heels or faces.
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  #2270  
Unread 06-25-2019, 03:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Jaysin View Post
Nathan Jones had the look of a star, but wasn't charismatic at all

Mike Sanders had charisma but no star quality.

Strongly disagree that Star quality and charisma are the same thing.
Let's agree to disagree that the dude had the look of a star. For real, not being snarky at all, that would just be another whole debate. His looks did not equal charisma at all, that is correct, but his looks also did not mean star quality. I tend to see star quality much more associated with charisma than looks. There are already stats for looks. I'm not saying that in an ideal world we would not have this or that stat, but in the interest of simplifying the game, I don't mind with the technical stuff being merged (3 stats for technical abilities seems too much) and i wouldn't mind SQ and charisma either being merged or the system being changed in some way. Name me one person in the history of the world that has extremely low charisma (or full lack of it) and is seen as someone with huge star quality or gets extremely popular in any entertainment field.

I know it is subject to opinions and not everyone agrees with me, but having SQ and charisma skills seems redundant. Charisma is closely tied to the so called it factor. Having another stat to help define it is...well, redundant, as I said.

As I also said, streamlining some stats and merging them into one doesn't seem to take away from the game in the grand scheme of things. I know those who love numbers, stats and comparisons will not like it, I for myself can't say I mind having stats to compare, and all of that, but if the game was already treating them as one, having 3 to mod was just simply not needed. Now I know this will lead to debates regarding wrestlers who were great on the mat and on the chain wrestling part of thing, as opposed to submission specialists, but I think these types of situations might be able to replicate by giving someone a certain percentage of technical. Eddie Guerrero wasn't a submission master, but was great on the mat, thus he wouldn't have a 100 in the new category, for example. Angle was great at both in his prime. And so on. If move set could resolve the rest I could see it working.

But given they were basically just filling space as they were calculated, can't say I can complain. Maybe there is a better solution in between.
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  #2271  
Unread 06-25-2019, 03:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Jaysin View Post
This is an outdated mindset. Orton has always been one of WWE's top merch sellers despite being a heel most of his career.

The nWo were the biggest merch movers for WCW despite being heel

The Shield were big merch sellers despite being heels.

CM Punk while heel did great numbers.

Selling merch has more to do with how over someone is more than whether they're heels or faces.
CM Punk in 2012 didn’t want to turn heel due to losing out on merch money. He said so in that big podcast he did.
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  #2272  
Unread 06-25-2019, 04:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shawn michaels View Post
Charisma and star quality should probably be one stat. You can't have "IT" if you're not charismatic. And that new skill should be apart from the rest of the promo skills. Maybe the whole other entertainment skills could be merged and Charisma would be its own thing. It's different to know how to do a promo and to be a charismatic person. Those two are not exclusive and even a guy who is great at spouting lines will not necessarily be charismatic.
This is horse poop. The Undertaker is a prime example. Until 98, that dude was a wet blanket of black hair, and a choke spot. But he was a STAR, the problem with "star quality" is gimmick, especially in sports entertainment feds and out-of-the-ring factors are usually what dictates this stat in IRL.

The "IT" factor of which you speak of is that you can connect with a crowd. This doesn't always mean that you're responsible directly for that. It can just be a cultural thing(Bruno) you don't have to have a natural charisma about you to have it. That's what makes it so hard to find. It's ethereal, the harder you chase it, the harder it is to find. The most successful, let it find them, usually.

In game terms, I like the way it is handled now, but I'd just rename it to something like natural ability, or acumen or w/e so it doesn't get spread to far. It's function is to give those guys who develop quicker than other guys, and get over faster than most, as a result, a little juice on everything they do so they stand out. I think it does this, it's just got a name that implies more.

Last edited by Makhai : 06-25-2019 at 04:43 PM.
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  #2273  
Unread 06-25-2019, 04:40 PM
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Originally Posted by TeemuFoundation View Post
CM Punk in 2012 didn’t want to turn heel due to losing out on merch money. He said so in that big podcast he did.
I don't want to relitigate the summer of punk. But he'd already had a heel run, and it was fine. I think we all can see in hindsight, that in order for that storyline to continue, one man needed to turn on the other out of jealousy and vanity. And he's the guy in the dorky green wrestling gear who got eclipsed in overness and had the hottest heel in wrestling history over his left shoulder. If they did the right thing that September eve, than AEW never happens and WWE are on the tail end of a huge wrestling boom.

Instead, they did what they did.
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  #2274  
Unread 06-25-2019, 04:45 PM
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Originally Posted by shawn michaels View Post
Let's agree to disagree that the dude had the look of a star. For real, not being snarky at all, that would just be another whole debate. His looks did not equal charisma at all, that is correct, but his looks also did not mean star quality.
He ended up making movies. In roles where the character was meant to be visually impressive. Just saying....
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  #2275  
Unread 06-25-2019, 05:04 PM
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I definitely wanted to see the technical stats consolidated into two, but I'm not sure what to think of it going down to one. Ultimately, I trust that it's the correct move, but I have liked seeing the distinction between submission experts and chain wrestlers. For diary writing, or any game where I wanted to really craft my roster, it was neat. I always like having one submission demon on my shows. Do I just make it up now?

(Of course I do)

Charisma and Star Quality I do see at different beasts. Star Quality is one of those weird stats that is a cool mechanical feature (some folks are easier to get over than others, despite their 'skills') but it can be seen as either a really vague and abstract mystery element, or a combination of a bunch of other stats (charisma, body type, gimmick, etc.).
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  #2276  
Unread 06-25-2019, 06:00 PM
John Lions John Lions is offline
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Originally Posted by Self View Post
I definitely wanted to see the technical stats consolidated into two, but I'm not sure what to think of it going down to one. Ultimately, I trust that it's the correct move, but I have liked seeing the distinction between submission experts and chain wrestlers. For diary writing, or any game where I wanted to really craft my roster, it was neat. I always like having one submission demon on my shows. Do I just make it up now?

(Of course I do)

Charisma and Star Quality I do see at different beasts. Star Quality is one of those weird stats that is a cool mechanical feature (some folks are easier to get over than others, despite their 'skills') but it can be seen as either a really vague and abstract mystery element, or a combination of a bunch of other stats (charisma, body type, gimmick, etc.).
To piggy back on the Star Quality vs Charisma discussion, I think Charisma has multiple aspects to it. To use an abstract example that most people don't really know much about, look at Survivor. On the reality TV show Survivor, the most compelling characters are the ones with *speaking* charisma, the ones who can narrate what's going on compellingly. This definitely falls outside of what Microphone/Acting skills are defined as, and it's what lumps Charisma in that "Entertainment" batch of skills. These guys usually aren't the most physically attractive, "star power" type of guys on the island, but they are definitely the most "charismatic".

There's also physical charisma, which kind of gets wrapped up in Star Quality/Menace/Sex Appeal in TEW terms. However, in TEW, when you get bonuses for Charisma in your matches, that implies that the Charisma stat in TEW terms is more than just that speaking charisma. I could see "physical charisma" and the physical stats like star quality/sex appeal/menace being the same thing, but the Charisma stat in-game is way more complex. Also, it all comes down to nitpicking definitions of words.
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  #2277  
Unread 06-25-2019, 07:05 PM
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I think someone hit the nail on the head earlier when explaining it. Star Quality is a sort of intangible trait that lets someone connect or get over with the fans. It is essentially that "IT" trait and how much they have of it acts as a limit to their success.

Then Charisma, Sex Appeal, Menace, ect. Should be how they are most able to get over. You could be amazing in this skill and be your primary attribute, but you may just end up capped by that intangible aspect or IT value which is Star Quality. Those values don't necessarily need to be rolled into one.
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  #2278  
Unread 06-25-2019, 08:35 PM
tambourin81 tambourin81 is offline
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Originally Posted by HiPlus View Post
Then Charisma, Sex Appeal, Menace, ect. Should be how they are most able to get over. You could be amazing in this skill and be your primary attribute, but you may just end up capped by that intangible aspect or IT value which is Star Quality. Those values don't necessarily need to be rolled into one.
Honestly you could probably merge Charisma, Mic and Acting skills into a single Entertainment stat in the same way Adam has merged the Submission, Chain and Mat Wrestling skills into a single Technical Wrestling stat, it's not like a highly charismatic worker would be bad at promos in the first place.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam Ryland
The Match Style setting has been removed from matches; the effect this piece of data used to have is instead controlled by the 'match aim' related road agent notes. For example, instead of needing a specific 1 vs 1 match with the style 'Comedy Based', you can just use the regular 1 vs 1 match and would use the 'Match Aim: Comedy' note. This saves database makers a lot of time, as they don't need to create multiple versions of the same match just to have different style settings, without adding to the player's workload as they would be using the match aim notes anyway.
Does that mean that there will be new match aims such as Comedy or Eye Candy to replace these special match styles?
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  #2279  
Unread 06-25-2019, 08:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tambourin81 View Post
Honestly you could probably merge Charisma, Mic and Acting skills into a single Entertainment stat in the same way Adam has merged the Submission, Chain and Mat Wrestling skills into a single Technical Wrestling stat, it's not like a highly charismatic worker would be bad at promos in the first place.
Jeff Hardy is one of the most charismatic guys ever, but he has horrible mic skills.
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  #2280  
Unread 06-25-2019, 09:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaysin View Post
Jeff Hardy is one of the most charismatic guys ever, but he has horrible mic skills.
Agreed it took him years to even be passable on the mic.
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