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  #12301  
Unread 11-07-2019, 02:34 AM
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BHK1978 BHK1978 is offline
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Originally Posted by Makhai View Post
Cyborg is 145lbs and is 5'6. How is that proper matchmaking? Probably if you wanted to proper match make you'd probably go like... Joe Benevidez vs. Amanda Nunes. And I'd favor Joey Strangle... but it'd be a fight.

If my argument is weak... yours is Trumpian.

I mean, this is professional wrestling, Rey Mysterio Jr. wrestles guys 3x his size every night, and nobody has a single problem with how big he is. Size is the pervue of storytelling, gender equality is a matter of storytelling. If you do anything right, you can get it over. The right girl, the right moment, the right story... and it can work.
I was not looking at it from a matchmaking point of view, they were the first two elite male and female MMA fighters that came to my head (Though I no longer watch MMA on a regular basis and so I am not sure if that is even true anymore. Them both being considered elite fighters.). I am sure (granted I can't read minds, so I don't know for a fact) you understood that, but it did not fit the narrative you wanted to push.

I recall folks in the past complaining about smaller guys beating bigger guys. I personally think you should only do it every so often like 1,2,3 Kid beating Razor. If you do it that way it makes it more in the realm of reality because you could say it was a fluke, the bigger guy did not take his opponent seriously.

That was why I had no problem with Brock squashing Kofi. Realistically what other outcome would there or could there be?

The current fanbase may no longer complain because it has become the norm, but back in the WCW days there were critics of it.

If you are looking at it strictly from an entertainment standpoint and willing to totally suspend reality, I would say you are right. However, if there is a hint of it being presented as a competitive sport I would disagree.

Now granted I have not watched TNA on a regular basis in probably over a year. Therefore, I do not truly know how they present it. What I did see dealing with her facing off against men, it looked like they were trying to present it like it was a more legit contest and not a sports entertainment contest.

Edited to add: I actually agree with you about doing small guy vs. big guy every so often. You edited your post and I did not look at your first post. This was only meant as a reply to your second post so disregard that portion of my post.

Last edited by BHK1978 : 11-07-2019 at 02:43 AM.
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  #12302  
Unread 11-07-2019, 04:51 PM
Astyn Astyn is offline
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Not once in my life have i ever seen something that even closely resembles a "competitive sport" when it comes to wrestling and THANK GOD FOR THAT!

IF it tells a story. BOOK IT. thats all that matters to me.
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  #12303  
Unread 11-07-2019, 05:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Astyn View Post
Not once in my life have i ever seen something that even closely resembles a "competitive sport" when it comes to wrestling and THANK GOD FOR THAT!

IF it tells a story. BOOK IT. thats all that matters to me.
I like the way you think!

That said, Impact has been fun since moving to AXS.
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  #12304  
Unread 11-07-2019, 11:53 PM
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Not once in my life have i ever seen something that even closely resembles a "competitive sport" when it comes to wrestling and THANK GOD FOR THAT!

IF it tells a story. BOOK IT. thats all that matters to me.
I am not trying to be condescending here, I never know how people will interpret what I write, but how long have you been watching wrestling?

I ask that because just in the early years of ROH they made it very sports like. The old NWA and AWA leaned more towards showing it as a sports. Heck even the WWWF and early WWF presented it more like it was a sport. Sure you would get comedy injected into the shows, but for the most part it was treated more like a sport.

This seems like it is an agree to disagree topic so I will leave it at that. As I previously said, I personally do not like inter gender matches because it takes the realism out of the product for me. The key word is for me, I am sure there are others who feel that way as well and there are others who disagree.

I did not like it when they did it with Chyna and I am not a fan of it now that it has become more normal (Though Chyna was far more imposing than Tessa).

Neither side is right or wrong as it is a matter of taste. People are allowed to have diverse opinions.
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  #12305  
Unread 11-08-2019, 05:08 AM
Astyn Astyn is offline
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Originally Posted by BHK1978 View Post
I am not trying to be condescending here, I never know how people will interpret what I write, but how long have you been watching wrestling?

I ask that because just in the early years of ROH they made it very sports like. The old NWA and AWA leaned more towards showing it as a sports. Heck even the WWWF and early WWF presented it more like it was a sport. Sure you would get comedy injected into the shows, but for the most part it was treated more like a sport.

This seems like it is an agree to disagree topic so I will leave it at that. As I previously said, I personally do not like inter gender matches because it takes the realism out of the product for me. The key word is for me, I am sure there are others who feel that way as well and there are others who disagree.

I did not like it when they did it with Chyna and I am not a fan of it now that it has become more normal (Though Chyna was far more imposing than Tessa).

Neither side is right or wrong as it is a matter of taste. People are allowed to have diverse opinions.
I was born in 1996 and my main period of watching wrestling was 1999-2005 so im only young but even then its easy for me to find old school AWA/NWA footage and still then its fake as all hell so ive learnt that realism isnt something i seek when it comes to wrestling. Hell if i wanted to see real competition id watch MMA and i understand that back in the 80s, MMA wasnt a thing so of course Wrestling would have been the only source for that sort of thing.

I watch wrestling because it fills the gap sports tend to miss and thats the Story. So in my opinion as long as the story is consistent and makes sense, im a happy man.
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  #12306  
Unread 11-09-2019, 01:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Astyn View Post
I was born in 1996 and my main period of watching wrestling was 1999-2005 so im only young but even then its easy for me to find old school AWA/NWA footage and still then its fake as all hell so ive learnt that realism isnt something i seek when it comes to wrestling. Hell if i wanted to see real competition id watch MMA and i understand that back in the 80s, MMA wasnt a thing so of course Wrestling would have been the only source for that sort of thing.

I watch wrestling because it fills the gap sports tend to miss and thats the Story. So in my opinion as long as the story is consistent and makes sense, im a happy man.
Back when wrestling was a worked-shoot, and not a shoot-work the idea of Becky Lynch or Ronda working a dude and beating up a Pro-Football player 2ft taller than her would kill a territory. Today, he's a scummy heel and she's the only over babyface on the roster. So you'd be dumb not to book it, honestly. It's all down to what you wanna see. Genie isn't going back in the bottle. But that doesn't mean wrestling has to turn into a dorkfest, and can't take itself at least mostly serious? My biggest problem with AEW and IMPACT is that it's run by a bunch of dorks, and they don't take this at all seriously.
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  #12307  
Unread 11-09-2019, 04:11 AM
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Originally Posted by Makhai View Post
Back when wrestling was a worked-shoot, and not a shoot-work the idea of Becky Lynch or Ronda working a dude and beating up a Pro-Football player 2ft taller than her would kill a territory. Today, he's a scummy heel and she's the only over babyface on the roster. So you'd be dumb not to book it, honestly. It's all down to what you wanna see. Genie isn't going back in the bottle. But that doesn't mean wrestling has to turn into a dorkfest, and can't take itself at least mostly serious? My biggest problem with AEW and IMPACT is that it's run by a bunch of dorks, and they don't take this at all seriously.
Wrestling is a bunch of drugged up carnies dressed in colorful fetish gear pretend fighting. What is there to take seriously?
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  #12308  
Unread 11-09-2019, 08:25 AM
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When we go down the 'let's do it, wrestling is fake anyway' route, it becomes a slippery slope and I say it as guy similar in Astyn's age group. Again reason I say this is due to the fact Impact is already doing Joey Ryan's dick spot. Lucha Underground was a completely fictional story with dragons and time travellers and they did intergender wrestling pretty well and it was justified as most of the times Luchadores and Luchadoras were of similar size yet even they never did the dick spot.

What IMPACT is going to do next?

Priscilla kelly doing her genital spot and whatever she does in general
or
Marko Stunt or Alexa Bliss/Sasha defeating someone like Lesnar just because we can do it
or
people selling for Orange Cassidy's feather-like offence?
or
Why not just do invisible grenade spot or the thumb in the bum spot from PWG on TV?

Now having said that, the whole storyline and Calihan has been done pretty well, it's just that her killing oVe or even going for X-division title is justified considering she is better/bigger than them anyway. but her defeating Men's heavyweight champion feels wrong, considering IMPACT is still a major company globally.

Look at it in this way, I have no issues with women winning cruiserweight championship as it is justified, both male and female are in similar weight class and similar sizes but it shouldn't be done with the heavyweight belt of any form.

On Indies, sure, go wild, sell for invisible man and puke on each other or have dance routines midmatch its all fun and that stuff is hilarious and just don't do it on proper wrestling company's broadcast.
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  #12309  
Unread 11-09-2019, 04:42 PM
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Originally Posted by SanX View Post
Marko Stunt or Alexa Bliss/Sasha defeating someone like Lesnar just because we can do it
.
ok but 1-2-3 Kid beating Razor Ramon is one of most people's fondest memories. Spike Dudley beating giants with the acid drop (dudley dog in WWE) back in ECW was very entertaining. Rey Mysterio has made an entire career out of beating guys twice his size.

it's all about context.
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  #12310  
Unread 11-10-2019, 03:45 PM
Astyn Astyn is offline
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Originally Posted by The Swanton825 View Post
Wrestling is a bunch of drugged up carnies dressed in colorful fetish gear pretend fighting. What is there to take seriously?
100% agree with you man. Its wrestling i feel sorry for anyone willing to get butthurt by a storyline.
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  #12311  
Unread 11-10-2019, 04:08 PM
Astyn Astyn is offline
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Originally Posted by SanX View Post
When we go down the 'let's do it, wrestling is fake anyway' route, it becomes a slippery slope and I say it as guy similar in Astyn's age group. Again reason I say this is due to the fact Impact is already doing Joey Ryan's dick spot. Lucha Underground was a completely fictional story with dragons and time travellers and they did intergender wrestling pretty well and it was justified as most of the times Luchadores and Luchadoras were of similar size yet even they never did the dick spot.
Joey Ryans Dick spot is the greatest move in Wrestling. If you dont understand that, you dont understand Wrestling my friend. Joey Ryan for TNA Champion 2020 (you heard it here first, dick flip to all the haters)

Weve been going down this slippery slope for a very long time maybe since the very beginning of wrestling. The Undertaker is one of the biggest stars in history and hes meant to be a dead guy... (YEAH RIGHT) - and theres a billion examples of this in wrestling. The whole industry is based on entertainment not realism.

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Originally Posted by SanX View Post
What IMPACT is going to do next?

Priscilla kelly doing her genital spot and whatever she does in general
If it pops the crowd and tells a story - Sure.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SanX View Post
or
Marko Stunt or Alexa Bliss/Sasha defeating someone like Lesnar just because we can do it
If it pops the crowd and tells a story - Sure.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SanX View Post
or
people selling for Orange Cassidy's feather-like offence?
or
Why not just do invisible grenade spot or the thumb in the bum spot from PWG on TV?
Definitely do the Invisible grenade spot i love that move! and i guarantee itll pop the crowd and entertain. So give it an UP!

Quote:
Originally Posted by SanX View Post
Look at it in this way, I have no issues with women winning cruiserweight championship as it is justified, both male and female are in similar weight class and similar sizes but it shouldn't be done with the heavyweight belt of any form.
Someones never heard of the infamous roll-up or small package (anyone can beat anyone in wrestling)

But hey, we all agree to disagree! Ill continue to enjoy whatever wrestling is available and you guys can continue to complain about it and were all happy.

Last edited by Astyn : 11-10-2019 at 04:14 PM.
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  #12312  
Unread 11-10-2019, 06:25 PM
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SanX SanX is offline
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Is this the general wrestling thread, cause I think it's IMPACT thread and we were discussing Impact and my point was IMPACT shouldn't be doing stuff like this.

Quote:
we all agree to disagree! I'll continue to enjoy whatever wrestling is available and you guys can continue to complain about it and were all happy.
I am no one to judge what you like or what you should like and I never said anything like that, nor did I say anything about any spot being stupid. I thought we were just sharing opinions.

Quote:
Someones never heard of the infamous roll-up or small package (anyone can beat anyone in wrestling)
You didn't even read my comment completely. I even praised Tessa's booking. I just said she shouldn't win the main belt.

Quote:
Joey Ryans Dick spot is the greatest move in Wrestling. If you don't understand that, you don't understand Wrestling my friend. Joey Ryan for TNA Champion 2020 (you heard it here first, dick flip to all the haters)
This may come as shock to you but I am a huge sucker for the trademark DDT/Chikara spots like a hand grenade or pause button or Ibushi Vs Yoshihiko the doll or the original 24/7 belt, the DDT Ironman HW champ hijinks. Also, I don't even hate Joey Ryan or his Dick flip, though re-reading my comment it can certainly be interpreted like that.

I like wrestling cause it can be anything you want it to be.

My point was that WWE or IMPACT still serve as gateway point for the wrestling globally. AEW is still finding international deals and NJPW is yet to actually expand globally. Things like dick flip or hand grenade are going to turn people away before they even begin to like wrestling and be dismissed or viewed as something stupid.

These are 'meta' spots, hence they serve the hardcore fans and hence they are generally spotted at indies and shouldn't be seen on any of the name promotions. That's all.
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  #12313  
Unread 11-10-2019, 11:50 PM
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BHK1978 BHK1978 is offline
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Originally Posted by SanX View Post
My point was that WWE or IMPACT still serve as gateway point for the wrestling globally. AEW is still finding international deals and NJPW is yet to actually expand globally. Things like dick flip or hand grenade are going to turn people away before they even begin to like wrestling and be dismissed or viewed as something stupid.

These are 'meta' spots, hence they serve the hardcore fans and hence they are generally spotted at indies and shouldn't be seen on any of the name promotions. That's all.
I am in complete agreement here. I actually have no problem with the hand grenade being used in a comedy based promotion, I actually found it funny the first time I saw it.

The dick flip is something that I think is a bit crass and very dumb. Now I am far from being Puritanical, but kids do attend these shows and I just do not think that should be part of a product that is being marketed to everyone. The move is also very dumb and it is stuff like that, that make me embarrassed to be a wrestling fan. Let alone to admit to being a wrestling fan to non-wrestling fans.

Oddly enough I was a fan of Joey Ryan's during his fist TNA run and I was hoping they would have pushed him a little bit more. But since he started doing the stupid "move", I no longer am a fan.
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  #12314  
Unread 11-12-2019, 04:51 AM
Astyn Astyn is offline
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Originally Posted by SanX View Post

This may come as shock to you but I am a huge sucker for the trademark DDT/Chikara spots like a hand grenade or pause button or Ibushi Vs Yoshihiko the doll or the original 24/7 belt, the DDT Ironman HW champ hijinks. Also, I don't even hate Joey Ryan or his Dick flip, though re-reading my comment it can certainly be interpreted like that.

I like wrestling cause it can be anything you want it to be.

My point was that WWE or IMPACT still serve as gateway point for the wrestling globally. AEW is still finding international deals and NJPW is yet to actually expand globally. Things like dick flip or hand grenade are going to turn people away before they even begin to like wrestling and be dismissed or viewed as something stupid.

These are 'meta' spots, hence they serve the hardcore fans and hence they are generally spotted at indies and shouldn't be seen on any of the name promotions. That's all.
But isnt wrestling stupid? I mean basically everyone where im from finds it incredibly obnoxious and wouldnt have a bar of it. Its wrestling where do you draw the line at ridiculous and normal? The irish whip will forever be the worst move in wrestling but i love it.
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