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#1
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![]() Ok, following all the drama that's gone down recently, I figure it'd be best to have a place to discuss it in a civil manner without tanking the various mod threads.
From now on, please feel free to discuss any issues you have related to the act of modding, rather than specific mods, in this thread and this thread only. Leave the mod threads for discussion about the actual mod itself. Edit: Alright, so, my original plan to move all the discussion posts from the 2000 mod thread into here failed miserably, but... er... have at it. ¬_¬ Last edited by D-Lyrium : 07-09-2016 at 06:00 PM. |
#2
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![]() Good call - though I reckon things could easily go south in this thread as well. I hope everything can work.
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#3
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![]() Quote:
Genuinely curious to hear a RW modder's take on this line of thought and thought I'd throw it out in here for open discussion. ![]() |
#4
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![]() Ok, so I found the posts I was meant to put here. The coding got screwed up though, so if any of these posts are attributed to the wrong person, my apologies.
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#5
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![]() As a mod maker myself, I thought that the community as a whole had moved away from being super protective about the data in their mods, thus assigning them "Freeware" for the betterment of the community as a whole. Now there seems to be a push to protect their data and restrict it from being used without written permission. I HATE this new trend of being super protective about things. I mean, I get that people don't want someone to just convert their mod from 2013 and call it their own as a 2016 version. But for me personally, whatever I create, be it angle packs, entire mods, or graphics will always be freeware - and by that I mean that people do not need to ask me to use it. If completing my 2004 mod leads to someone creating a 2005 mod - that only benefits everyone else.
* * * * * * * * * With that out of the way - I can't seem to figure out how to set a worker's Hall of Immortal image to a different image than their default profile one. |
#6
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![]() Its an ager feature.
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#7
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![]() Literally the only place I haven't looked :P
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#8
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![]() I do think we have to look at the big picture here.
I wouldn't buy this game without real world mods, for me I just can't get into playing with made up people. Also I do like to mod and edit things, I probably don't have much time, but I have tried to either help where I can or test where I can. Now I'm not interested in credit at all. Don't get me wrong if I made a mod I would like people to know I did it just so in future people may one to me for help, but you have to realise with a real world mod, you are not making the mod up yourself, you are actually replicating real life. I can understand getting upset if it is a fictional mod, because that is that persons own ideas, Adam could not sell the game with a real life mod as the database because he could easily get taken to court and lose, so all real life mods are made without licences and therefore are not any persons own ideas, you're replicating real life, locations, workers, relationships, everything is an actual copy of something. The only real life mods that the maker actually has any sort of stamp on is the alternate mods, but they still use real people, locations and companies. So I'm on the side of really you can't complain if someone wants to use a database you have made based on real life, because that idea is not yours, the world is not yours, the permission to actually use the names and pictures are not yours. I do just want to say though, all mod makers deserve a hell of a lot of credit, especially those who's mods I've used (off the top of my head) justxyank, Genedi and the mod squad, give (I think) fleish, all deserve the credit for what they've done for real world mods, there's a lot of names I've missed off, but as long as you are credited (you should be given the option because the mod could be changed to look so bad you don't want asscoating with it) then you should be happy. Working together and making better mods is what we should all aim for. If we have 3 different versions of 2016 then that's a good thing because 1 mod maker might be good at putting the mod together but be terrible with stats, another guy could be bad at putting mods together and use the first guys mod and change it into a much much better mod. I suppose I've gone on a bit, is anyone up for making a celebrity based mod? |
#9
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![]() Quote:
I just wanted to add though, I feel you're contradicting yourself with fictional vs non-fictional. The ratings, data collected etc are certainly original works, there's no single definitive way to measure a worker. It's a mod maker's ideas how good a person is at a given time, whether workers should have colour ratings, or not, whether they are a particular size, body weight. Even Ownership structures... I don't wish to bring an external debate here, but I know that there's been many discussions between myself, Genadi and justtxyank on how best to simulate WCW's ownership structures ![]() There's many ways in which work into a mod is original to a point, and very much so I think people have a right to complain if someone wants to use their work without permission. As you'll know any kind of mod takes a certain kind of care and attention to detail into it to be in any way a good mod. What I don't like to see personally are two things:- People mass importing a mod, and only making very small changes to the databases and not holding it to a high standard. Especially when lots of issues become apparent in that mod because worker stats are overpowered, or details are wrong because often - a worker created for a mod in 1997 is meant for 1997, not 1992 or 1993. I also think that sometimes, credit given to people without asking is actually a reflection of that persons' work than the person creating the mod. If the details are wrong, and the mod attributes that part of the work to you (and not the author), then people will be less trusting of your work in future. Asking for credit is great for a couple of things, its an endorsement but also oftentimes you will find people will be very much willing to help you out with mod specific changes and polish. There's many great members of the community that do this, TsuMirren, Genadi, justtxyank, Hive, Matt Shannon to name a few who are also great with feedback as well. Everybody wants more mods but more importantly, everybody wants great mods. That's why I think communication and collaboration is so important. Everybody's mods become suddenly better when we're all discussing things and helping each other. It isn't helped though if some people are out for themselves and just want to take work from others and take credit themselves, without also contributing to the community as a whole. |
#10
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![]() I was one of the first modder to make freeware a thing, in fact I made a mission statement thread several years to encourage it and put my own work up for grabs. Nothing but more drama came as a result and somehow people were calling me selfish.... So yeah that's my take on freeware. Sounded good in theory but in practice did nothing for the boards but add drama.
If people are protective of their work now I completely understand it. Thing about BITW's thread is he broke forum rules. They're stickied and quite clear so anyone defending him maybe talk to Adam about the rules instead of other member? |
#11
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![]() I just want to play the mods.
Like, all of them. I (heart) all of you guys. My love for you will always be freeware. |
#12
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![]() Was what G said actually a problem? Because that just seems heavily unbelievable for me in that people actually had issues with that.
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#13
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![]() Quote:
![]() There weren't always stickied rules about permission, they came about for a reason and events I really don't feel like recollecting. Nonetheless the rules are there, whether you think they're BS or not. Adam would be the one to talk to about that not the people adhering and enforcing them. |
#14
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#15
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It baffles me to no end that something as simple as "Hey, we'd like you to simply throw us a PM asking for permission as a sign of respect" can be objected to so fiercely. We're not asking you for money or your first born, we're asking for respect for our hard work. How on earth can that be perceived as being too much to ask for??? ![]() To me, this kind of behaviour is both shocking and sad. And while I cannot speak for others, I can tell you that if Adam's rules about asking permission are lifted, I'll personally stop making mods for the masses. We modders spend soooo much time you non-modders probably wouldn't believe it trying to create a flush gameworld and a great experience for others for free - and if we can't even be shown the simplest form of gratitude and respect for our work, then why bother? |
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