Non-Wrestler Overness

[aznblusuazn]

I looked through the entire thread and I could not find anything that addressed this issue. If there is a thread, I apologize and please point me to it.

Anyway, I always had this problem with getting managers over in TEW 05. For example, if a female valet had all the attributes to get over (mic, charisma, looks, sex appeal, etc.) but just wasn't know (F for overness), and putting her with a midcard wrestler that was a charisma-blackhole, unless helped the wrestler with his charisma skills during interviews, but the manager's overness would never move. The only way I found to get the manager over would be to put the manager in angles and/or have the manager do promos, instead of the "manager helping the wrestler".

If the manager has all the attributes to improve, shouldn't the manager's overness improve with the wrestler? For example, let's say if John Cena (who is WWE most heavily pushed superstar) starts bring out some random hot female, just call her "Kate" (let's say her sex appeal is A* but overness is F). Even if Kate never said a word in a promo but always accompanied him everywhere, shouldn't Kate's overness improve?

Also, in a similar scenario, I think this should go for announcers/commentators as well. Can anyone claim that Jim Ross got his overness from doing angles and interviews? Ross's claim to fame is that he is a fantastic play-by-play announcer. I have had several times when I have had an announcer with excellent skills with no overness, do a fantastic job announcing, but never increase overness.

I think there could be an argument for the referees.

Anyway, I just wanted to know if this issue was going to be addressed. Thanks.

[Payne]

More often than not, in the case of Ross, his "onscreen" overness would go up doing "Announcer hypes upcoming match" things. There are types of angles that would keep him away from the action, but on screen nonetheless.

That's my advice, althought it's a good question.

[Adam Ryland]

Announcers, colour commentators and referees all improve in overness for their respective jobs.

Managers will not follow your suggested plan; from a game point of view it makes no sense to have them gain overness just from being associated with a bigger name - players could simply sign up a bunch of unover managers, stick them with a main eventer for a short while, watch their overness fly up, then move them on to a wrestler to "pass on" the boost. There's no drawbacks, the feature would basically be giving the player a free pass to get as much overness as they want, whenever they want.

[Unright]

Originally Posted by Adam Ryland

Managers will not follow your suggested plan; from a game point of view it makes no sense to have them gain overness just from being associated with a bigger name - players could simply sign up a bunch of unover managers, stick them with a main eventer for a short while, watch their overness fly up, then move them on to a wrestler to "pass on" the boost. There's no drawbacks, the feature would basically be giving the player a free pass to get as much overness as they want, whenever they want.

But isn't this done in real life all the time? If you have a superstar with great popularity you saddle them with some other people in hopes of getting some reflection of the spotlight?

I mean, the amount of overness boost for the lackeys should only be about a tenth of what the main star gets. But repeated exposure to someone with a high superstar look (or similar attribute) would raise that worker's overness.

Simply put. Beautiful people can get over on looks alone, even when they do nothing.

[Adam Ryland]

Originally Posted by Unright

But isn't this done in real life all the time? If you have a superstar with great popularity you saddle them with some other people in hopes of getting some reflection of the spotlight?

I mean, the amount of overness boost for the lackeys should only be about a tenth of what the main star gets. But repeated exposure to someone with a high superstar look (or similar attribute) would raise that worker's overness.

Simply put. Beautiful people can get over on looks alone, even when they do nothing.

That is already simulated. You use them in supporting role in angles and they will get some reflected glory. My post was in response to them gaining overness from doing nothing more than being assigned as a manager.

[Remianen]

I've brought this up a few times myself. There does seem to be somewhat of a double standard with regard to overness generation of support workers. While Adam makes a very good point, I still don't think the current system is very palatable. Do you realize that Hulk Hogan vs Layla El would gain Layla far more overness in far more areas than her doing promos for 6 months or more? That's just an example. Because I don't like to see my announcers and managers essentially crap on segments they're involved in, and because even if they did segments with over workers on shows or PPVs broadcast around the world, they still wouldn't gain any overness beyond the area the show is held, I've taken to having my key support people wrestle dark matches with my headliners. Sure, the matches aren't rated as highly as they would be with 'real' wrestlers, but it's the only way to gain a support worker overness in an equitable fashion. In the cases of managers or announcers who are former wrestlers themselves, it can gain them overness very quickly.

I don't think a manager's overness should necessarily be tied to a worker's. As Adam pointed out, that's too easily exploitable. But, I do think that something should be done for (some) non-wrestling segments so that they enjoy some kind of benefit to balance their shortcoming (that being, the ability to drag down a show's rating by negatively affecting the crowd). I mean, if dark matches are televised (and, mechanically speaking, they are in 05), a worker doing a promo should be as well. That would help a great deal towards allowing support workers a chance to at least become somewhat familiar to the audience of the promotion they work for.

[cyberkitten01]

Yup, it sucks have a really talented manager with no overness do a promo and then it bombs because of the overness If you have the worker and the manager doing a 2 person promo, does that work? I've found the manager stops helping the person then though

[aznblusuazn]

Thanks Adam for the response. I appreciate you taking the time to address the issue. Looking forward to the game. Keep up the hard work!

[nightstalker]

This can be countered a bit by using Angles that rate the Non-Wrester on Mic/Entertainment instead of overness. Not fool proof, but helps.

[Rob4590]

Originally Posted by nightstalker

This can be countered a bit by using Angles that rate the Non-Wrester on Mic/Entertainment instead of overness. Not fool proof, but helps.

Not really true I'm afraid, as the angle is rated on their overness as well as the stat that it says that it is rated on (mic/ent)

[GuyInTheCorner]

would it be possible to have new role titles like manager and client, that would lump the two workers together using the client's overness and the managers entertainment skills as a total package to rate the segment, which is essentially the manager's role in real life.

[Remianen]

Originally Posted by cyberkitten01

Yup, it sucks have a really talented manager with no overness do a promo and then it bombs because of the overness If you have the worker and the manager doing a 2 person promo, does that work? I've found the manager stops helping the person then though

As it stands now, overness is the end-all, be-all in 05. A worker with F mic skill and A* overness doing an angle rated on mic skill will still grade out MUCH higher than a worker with A* mic skill and F overness. Every time. The only exception to this rule is angles rated on Looks, which take the worker's Looks stat and derives the segment rating directly from that (with crowd mood having a small effect). A manager with F overness doing an angle with a worker with A* overness will rate out in the C+ to B range, regardless of their mic skill, though it may grade out as high as B+ or A if the crowd is hot and the manager is rated on 'Entertainment' skill (which is essentially an average, which allows you to take advantage of managers with a few high grades and a few low ones in the Entertainment area).

Given the fact that the primary means of mitigating this shortcoming (at least that's what I perceive it as) is being tuned down (that being, looks based angles), the issues surrounding support personnel and their ability (or lack thereof) to get over warrants a look, I believe. This situation also makes some managers MUCH more attractive than others. Semi-active or inactive wrestlers who manage (Jennifer Heat comes to mind as the most glaring example in my game) become much easier to get over since they can usually hold their own in a wrestling match. Then once they're over, they can better do the job you're paying them to do without being an albatross to segment ratings.

[cyberkitten01]

Yes, what he said

[tristram]

I'd like to think managers could gain overness from being lumped with a wrestler. For example, if Bobby Heenan was completely unknown in the mid 1970s, and then started managing.... Ivan Koloff against Bruno Sammartino in the WWWF, and in a match at Madison Square Garden pulled on the boot of Sammartino as you'd expect a heel manager to do, and it ends up putting Sammartino at a distinct advantage, the pro Sammartino crowd would IMHO react to Heenan for his heel actions, and start to gain him notierity, which transcends to overness. Realistically, Miss Elizabeth was a southern girl who did not a lot except look beautiful at the beginning, true, she did become a focal point for Macho Man's craziness and a centre point for the marriage angle and the Destruction of the MegaManiacs, but, she was starting to get over IMHO being at ringside with Macho Man for her looks and the unbelievable chemistry and conflict they had. Same could be said for Paul Bearer, I wouldn't rate his entertainment skills absurdly high, and he wasn't massively over from his days in the territory when he came to the WWF, but he had a connection with the Undertaker that made him reverred.

Good discussion, and I can certainly understand Adam's point of view on the issue irrespective of my own perspective.

[eayragt]

Originally Posted by tristram

I'd like to think managers could gain overness from being lumped with a wrestler. For example, if Bobby Heenan was completely unknown in the mid 1970s, and then started managing.... Ivan Koloff against Bruno Sammartino in the WWWF, and in a match at Madison Square Garden pulled on the boot of Sammartino as you'd expect a heel manager to do, and it ends up putting Sammartino at a distinct advantage, the pro Sammartino crowd would IMHO react to Heenan for his heel actions, and start to gain him notierity, which transcends to overness. Realistically, Miss Elizabeth was a southern girl who did not a lot except look beautiful at the beginning, true, she did become a focal point for Macho Man's craziness and a centre point for the marriage angle and the Destruction of the MegaManiacs, but, she was starting to get over IMHO being at ringside with Macho Man for her looks and the unbelievable chemistry and conflict they had. Same could be said for Paul Bearer, I wouldn't rate his entertainment skills absurdly high, and he wasn't massively over from his days in the territory when he came to the WWF, but he had a connection with the Undertaker that made him reverred.

Good discussion, and I can certainly understand Adam's point of view on the issue irrespective of my own perspective.

I think you make some key points here, that show that this feature isn't just because it would make it easier to "cheat" that game. Firstly you said Miss Elizabeth got over before being a focal point on her looks and conflict with Macho Man. Those two show Miss Elizabeth actually participating in angle. The same could definately be said of Paul Bearer - all his urn antics were angles.