Do you respect Vince McMahon?

[Earth]

I was wondering what people thoughts on Vince McMahon? You like the him? Do you respect him? Or both?

I respect and like the guy, to be honest.

Yeah, people hate him because he screwed the independent scene, but surely that's the way things work nowadays? The smaller companies find and train the talent, and the big ones utilise it.

Also, Survivor Series '97. I have never felt sorry for Bret on that occasion. To me, Vince was protected his business. It is understandable that would be his first priority. I think Bret comes across as selfish for not realising this. That's just me.

I know I sound like some torrie, but I promise you, I am not. I am nothing like Vince and have no ambitions to be anything like him in the future. I just understand that he's a man that is willing to do anything to protect his investment, and for that I kind of admire him.

What do you guys think?

[Self]

I respect him. I may rant later (possibly on the Bret thing, Hart mark that I am) but I respect Vince. One Hell of a businessman.

[Earth]

Originally Posted by Self

I respect him. I may rant later (possibly on the Bret thing, Hart mark that I am) but I respect Vince. One Hell of a businessman.

I'll look forward to your rant, mate. It would be interesting to hear another opinion on it. I watched "Wrestling With Shadows" a while ago, and couldn't really sympathise, I must say.

[CQI13]

I like Vince. I respect him as well. I don't like some of the things he's done to embarrass employees (namely Jim Ross -- KMA Club, pulling JR's head from his ass, etc). But aside from that, I think he'd be a good person to work for.

On the Bret Hart thing, Vince was protecting his business, even if it all really comes down to Shawn being a jerk about things (as he had done in the past, giving belts up rather than losing them).

Never understood why they didn't just have Bret win, and immediately after the match have Bret relinquish the belt. People knew what the situation was, so it doesn't really ruin anything.

--EDIT--

As for destroying the territories, that was HIS vision. If the territories had banded together (they did) and succeeded (they didn't) no one would care about what Vince had done prior. I have heard Greg Gagne mention that they unwittingly spilled their (meaning the AWA) business secrets to Vince over the course of a few meetings. They kind of did themselves in with that.

[FlameSnoopy]

The one that doesn't respect Vince McMahon either doesn't know who he is, or is a hell of a stupid guy. Because Vince (Jr) was the guy that made wrestling a mainstream sport (atleast in the USA) You can't honestly denie that? The screwjob wasn't a screwjob. It was business. Honestly, if I would be Vince I would do the exact same thing. Bret is stupid for not letting it go. But for all the things Vince has done, he deservers respect. He is a "hell-uf-a-businessman".

[Hive]

I respect him for all he has accomplished and for putting wrestling on the map the way he did, but I don't particularly agree with all his methods or like him personally. And I most certainly do not like how he ruined WCW just for the sake of doing so and I don't like what he has done with wrestling in this decade, the direction he has pulled it into.

About the Montreal Screwjob, I'm with neither side. Bret was a jackass for refusing to lose the belt and for putting himself before the company that made him a star and did great things for him. Vince was a jackass for insisting that Bret lost it in front of his home crowd and to a guy he hated with a passion and for lying to him before screwing him. And Shawn was a jackass for being a dishonest coward who kept it as a secret for years that he was in on it. Either way, I have sympathy for noone in that incident.

[The Masked Orange]

Vince is one of the men that made modern wrestling, he is by far one of the most effective businessmen in the entire business, and heck, the guy has entertained my for all my life.

Any guy crazy enough to allow HBK to drop the elbow on a trash can through the table just for my entertainment, I respect.

Also, no love here for Bret, he was employed by WWE, yet he was unwilling to drop the belt for them, Vince was just protecting his business, I think it could of been done better, but the way he did it was fine.

[CQI13]

Just like Shawn was employed by Vince all those times when HE refused to lose the belt. Seriously, he was a scumbag. And as late as 2006 to leave before Bret's induction (or so I've heard) reflects poorly.

Best promoter ever, Vince McMahon? I think it's safe to say.

[Chuck]

Originally Posted by Hive

Vince was a jackass for insisting that Bret lost it in front of his home crowd

That statement is false... the screwjob was in Montreal. Bret is from Calgary. That'd be like Shawn saying he cant lose in Lubbock or Amarillo

[Tha Black Phenom]

Of course I respect Vince. Liking or hating him is another thing though, but I definitely respect the man. He has had some great ideas, and some horrible ones. Everyone does. As for the screwjob, despite being a Montreal native myself, I'm on neither side really. If I had to choose I'd be on Bret, but I pretty much feel what Hive said.

[dvdWarrior]

I respect Vince, you kinda have to if you're a wrestling fan. I'm 197.3% on Bret Hart's side when it comes to the screwjob though. There had to be better ways for Vince to handle that whole situation.

[Self]

Here's my Montreal standpoint. My main source of knowledge is Bret's awesome book (which I must re-read at some point) I haven't seen Wrestling With Shadows, but I was tempted to buy it not long ago.

According to Bret, a little while before Montreal, Shawn Michaels out-and-out said "I'm not going to job to Bret". Bret, not liking the ****y prick to begin with, said "Fine. If you're not gonna job to me, I won't job to you." Survivor Series came up, and Vince wanted Bret to drop the strap to Shawn, in Canada, where Bret was a hero.

Bret offered to drop it to Austin. He offered to drop it to Undertaker. He offered to drop it to Shawn the following night on RAW. He just wasn't going to drop it to Shawn in Canada. Hence he got screwed.

I understand Bret's standpoint. I understand Vince's standpoint. I know this is the Hart Foundation mark in me, but I really wish Vince had let him drop it to Austin, or Taker, or Shawn the following night on RAW.

[The Masked Orange]

The point is Self, that Vince needed to prove that Bret wasn't the invincible golden boy many Canadians thought he was.

By having HBK beat him, you get a lot of heat, and HBK certainly got a lot of heat in Canada after that.

[dvdWarrior]

Originally Posted by Self

According to Bret, a little while before Montreal, Shawn Michaels out-and-out said "I'm not going to job to Bret". Bret, not liking the ****y prick to begin with, said "Fine. If you're not gonna job to me, I won't job to you." Survivor Series came up, and Vince wanted Bret to drop the strap to Shawn, in Canada, where Bret was a hero.

Bret offered to drop it to Austin. He offered to drop it to Undertaker. He offered to drop it to Shawn the following night on RAW. He just wasn't going to drop it to Shawn in Canada. Hence he got screwed.

That's similar to what Mick Foley said in his first book, that Bret was willing to drop the belt to Austin or The Undertaker, he just didn't want to drop it to HBK in Montreal. Foley was ready to walk out of the company over the situation, and, for whatever reason, Foley's story sounded more... real... than most of the other variations that I've heard. I tend to believe him.

[The Masked Orange]

Vince shouldn't of screwed Bret, but it clearly did him good business...


...eventually anyways...