TNA Cult or National?

[Genadi]

I didn't want to choke up Jimmy's mod thread with this discussion but think it's an important one to have.

Originally Posted by Donners

Then you agree that they should be listed as National, with limitations in place to keep their ratings and attendances realistic?

I'm not sure tbh, I honestly haven't tried this mod yet so it's hard to say what I think would need changing. When you change one thing in a mod it can effect alot of different things you don't expect, I'm sure Jimmy knows this he's been on this mod for a good year now.

I'd have to really test and know alot about a mod to make a decision like that.

Originally Posted by Donners

Because no amount of mod tweaking - unless you make everybody in the database a friend of somebody on the TNA roster AND put on a string of absolutely awesome shows AND give them a lot of money - will allow the user to sign anybody to written contracts with TNA at Cult level.

That's not true, I noted just a few of the reasons workers won't sign written deals at Cult. The big names TNA signed on written deals were all a little unique in their own way....

Sting, stated many times he signed and resigned out of personal loyalty to the Jarretts (plus his contract was big money for his schedule).

Kurt Angle, His popularity takes a hit as a result of his drug scandal , he's suspended, walks out on WWE and has a falling out with Vince. He's extremely driven and heads to Japan for a stint but then is lured back to the US, only after a big money contract (Including a main event title run and CC) from TNA.

Both of those scenarios are reflected in TEW very well and would play out almost identically most times with a good mod. Saying that though....

The one that does stand out is Hogan, I'd say at the lowest his popularity could be set at B+. I'm not sure if a Cult promotion could sign a name that big under any circumstances? Maybe the Hulk signing signifies TNA's jump to National in TEW?

What this thread needs is some Ryland insight

[Tempest Kane]

Its most certainly a National company, National TV, House shows... PPVs...

The question at this point ... is it international ? has TV & PPV deals across the world, tours world wide (or atleast half as much as WWE does), and it has talent that has global popularity in large number since the january 4th.

Do they draw National numbers? No... live attendance isnt even close... so in TEW terms? i dono.

[Gigas]

TNA is cult. Under Donners logic, USPW should be national because they have "Hulk Hogan."

[sabataged]

Originally Posted by Gigas

TNA is cult. Under Donners logic, USPW should be national because they have "Hulk Hogan."

This is a touchy subject that has happened the last couple of years to be honest.

I have got into several debates on this subject. I think they are National in terms of TEW. All though they are about on the same level as ECW and they were never considered National either.

I say national because they run some house shows, have guys signed to written deals where they can't just show up in WWE, run ppv's, and a national TV show.

[Mr.Macho]

National, its the only way you can play the company realistically.

[Basmat01]

How many guys have written Deals with them? Most of the midcard and undercard still do work the indys to make ends meet

To me 4 guys on written deals doesnt make them a national company. they would be on the high end of Cult minimum

[Gigas]

The maker of the game said TNA was cult in TEW terms so Im not sure why its being argued still.

[Genadi]

It's being discussed not argued, quite well so far to I might add some good points raised on both ends.

I can't remember Adam saying anything about them being at Cult lately or since the Hogan signing anyway. I personally think at the high end of Cult like Basmat said but I think the discussion should be had to help not just mod makers but players understand the logic.

[Scorpio3060]

How many Cverse cult promotions start with guys on written deals?

All of them.

[Donners]

Originally Posted by Genadi

That's not true, I noted just a few of the reasons workers won't sign written deals at Cult. The big names TNA signed on written deals were all a little unique in their own way....

Sting, stated many times he signed and resigned out of personal loyalty to the Jarretts (plus his contract was big money for his schedule).

Kurt Angle, His popularity takes a hit as a result of his drug scandal , he's suspended, walks out on WWE and has a falling out with Vince. He's extremely driven and heads to Japan for a stint but then is lured back to the US, only after a big money contract (Including a main event title run and CC) from TNA.

Both of those scenarios are reflected in TEW very well and would play out almost identically most times with a good mod. Saying that though....

The one that does stand out is Hogan, I'd say at the lowest his popularity could be set at B+. I'm not sure if a Cult promotion could sign a name that big under any circumstances? Maybe the Hulk signing signifies TNA's jump to National in TEW?

What this thread needs is some Ryland insight

Put aside the big names. I'm talking about the ability to sign ANY worker to a binding written contract.

TNA has done this for years, pulling workers from RoH (and almost all other indi feds these days) and, most importantly, keeping them out of reach of WWE.


This is the crucial point. This is a key element of portraying TNA accurately.

In real life, whether they are re-signing a worker or signing a new one, they can sign them to what is in TEW a written contract - something that prevents other promotions from being able to steal them for a set period.

If TNA is a Cult fed, they cannot do that except in extremely limited circumstances.

Therefore, if TNA is in as a Cult fed, they are not being accurately represented.

It is then a challenge for the modmaker to balance TNA as a national fed to keep their ratings and attendances realistic.




Your own mod has TNA in April 2002, without even a single show to its name, at Cult level (albeit a low Cult level). Do you think that after all the progress they have made in a business, production and exposure over eight years, they should be at exactly the same level?

Originally Posted by Basmat01

How many guys have written Deals with them? Most of the midcard and undercard still do work the indys to make ends meet

To me 4 guys on written deals doesnt make them a national company. they would be on the high end of Cult minimum

Virtually all. You think WWE could steal all but four members of the TNA roster whenever they want? Ludicrous.

TNA release some of the lower wrestlers to work indy feds, but that does not mean they cannot bar them from doing so - as they showed with RoH. Contracts IRL don't work exactly like those in TEW, you know...

Styles and Morgan are on five-year deals, Angle one year, Roode and Storm four years, Anderson one year, Joe several years, Nash one year, ODB several and probably the same through the vast majority of the roster. Only those at the very low end would be on non-binding agreements.

The most notable recent examples of people leaving TNA to go to WWE - Gail Kim and Christian - came at the expiry of their contracts.

Originally Posted by Scorpio3060

How many Cverse cult promotions start with guys on written deals?

All of them.

True, but we know for a fact that TNA can continue to sign ANY worker (who is not already under an exclusive deal elsewhere) to a written contract IRL. Playing them realistically requires that ability from the start of the game.

How many C-verse Cult promotions air in the US, Canada, UK and Australia?

[rajde]

By What Adam has explained the perameters. ROH wouldn't even be cult. From my understanding you need 5000 to get around a C. TNA can't draw that well. I doubt they are even close to National. They are Cult.

[Gigas]

I have had absolutely no problem signing workers to writen contracts in USPW. Just put more points in the negotiation skills. I havent signed any super over guys, but Samoan Machine and Umaga signed written deals with me, as did Carl Batch, Andre Jones, Sara York and Eugene Williams. And those are the only 6 people Ive signed.. all to written.

[ChrisKid]

It's got to be national

[Mr.Macho]

Most of the roster are on written deals, id say 70%?

[Genadi]

Originally Posted by Donners

Put aside the big names. I'm talking about the ability to sign ANY worker to a binding written contract.

TNA has done this for years, pulling workers from RoH (and almost all other indi feds these days) and, most importantly, keeping them out of reach of WWE.


This is the crucial point. This is a key element of portraying TNA accurately.

I agree this is the crucial point but it's not as cut and dry as you make it sound, in fact it's quite a hazy line. TNA don't have he ability to sign ANY worker to a written deal.

Let's take a guy like Nash for example, a guy I'd say around a C+ to B- in pop. For years (I'm unsure about atm) his contract in TNA has been an insiders joke generator... CC, Excl PPA but the ability technically to walk out and show up on RAW a night after going over on a TNA PPV.

The press conference might read Hulk Hogan written contract but I guarantee there's about 100 "Get out" clauses that wouldn't be in a WWE contract, that's been the crucial reason Hogan wouldn't sign with Vince he didn't want to be tied up to a company and give them the rights to his (C), even a company the size of WWE.

Contracts especially in pro wrestling are a very grey area.

Originally Posted by Donners

Therefore, if TNA is in as a Cult fed, they are not being accurately represented.

I disagree, I already explained why it depends on loads of other things.

Originally Posted by Donners

Your own mod has TNA in April 2002, without even a single show to its name, at Cult level (albeit a low Cult level). Do you think that after all the progress they have made in a business, production and exposure over eight years, they should be at exactly the same level?

Adam has explained this loads of times, just because they're Cult in '02 and Cult in '10 doesn't mean they haven't grown. A jump from Cult to National is sometimes a 2.0% rise in popularity. In the '02 mod look closeley at TNA's pop, it's set so they are at the bare miminum of Cult, a few bad shows and they're Regional. That's not the case now, in fact a few great shows and they could be National. It should be noted though I think... TNA's growth has been a very gradual grind and they haven't seen their draw power increase substanially even with some huge signings.

I made them Cult in the '02 mod for many different reasons, mainly because it fit in with the rest of the mod and ran the best in tests without having to jeopardize other areas.