Official MLB Discussion Thread

[BHK1978]

With the season right around the corner I thought why not start up an MLB thread?

First topic for me,

You ever notice there are certain players that you either think are still playing or you thought retired like three years ago?

Well anyway that happened to me today, when I read that Frank Thomas retired. What the heck? I thought he retired like three years ago! Well I guess not.

So assuming that Frank played clean his entire career (which I think he did), does anybody think he is HOF material?

[sabataged]

Another official topic....

Ya I think Frank is HOF material for sure

[BHK1978]

I would love to see Frank Thomas get into the hall of fame. However, I think he may end up like Jim Rice. A great player who just has something missing, that alone might mean that he does not get into the HOF right away. Also, he was very injury prone over the last couple of seasons (heck he did not even play last year) and I am afraid that because of this, it may have tarnished his career a bit.

I wanted to add that I know Jim Rice made it to the Hall, because what I just wrote might make it seem that I didn't know.

[Slagaholic]

Frank Thomas should be first ballot but he won't be. He'll get in without a doubt. He's one of the greatest hitters of all time.

[PeterHilton]

Originally Posted by Slagaholic

Frank Thomas should be first ballot but he won't be. He'll get in without a doubt. He's one of the greatest hitters of all time.

Statistically he's a monster. I mean, realistically he should be unanimous first ballot HOFer based on his numbers. He's going to retire as one of four players in mlb history w/a .300 batting average, 500 home runs, 1,500 RBI, 1,000 runs and 1,500 walks (along with Mel Ott, Ted Williams, and Babe Ruth)

He has two MVPs and four silver slugger awards.

Plus, his HR totals never flared up dramatically and the levelled off and dipped normally so you almost assume (although you never know for sure) that he did it clean.

Definitely in the HOF

[GatorBait19]

the only thing I think that will knock on Thomas is he was never the best at his position

and about the steroids thing

http://media.photobucket.com/image/f..._THOMAS_RC.jpg

http://webpages.maine207.org/staff/a...le-Posters.jpg


they head grew along with his body i guess, but that is beside the point, Frank may have never been the best at his position (1B/DH) but his stats stat that he is a Hall of Famer.

Personally I think the Steroid argument for guys up to vote is dumb as well, because all steroids does his help you get bigger, faster, and stronger. That might be cheating to some but don't protein shakes help you improve muscle as well?

Plus even with steroids you still have to hit the ball

But Thomas to me, steroid are not may not have been the best, like I have stated before, but certainly a Hall of Famer

[PeterHilton]

Originally Posted by GatorBait19

Plus even with steroids you still have to hit the ball

This argument has been disporven quite a bit over the years.

Steroids also improve the fast twitch muscles which create reflexive reactions. Sprinters get out the block faster, hurdlers and high jumpers can start their jump attempts a step later, and batters can swing faster and later in the pitch.

Steroids and HGH most definitely help you hit a ball farther, harder, and more consistently.

The idea that steroids don't help you hit a baseball is a lie the athlete's have told to cover their own asses.

Now..if you don't see why it's wrong for artificially improve their performance, that's a separate issue.

[PeterHilton]

Originally Posted by GatorBait19

the only thing I think that will knock on Thomas is he was never the best at his position

also (and I hope it doesn't come off like I'm taking a personal shot at you lol)
I would really like to see who was a better 1B from 1991-1997 than Frank Thomas. Seriously..who was better?

[Stennick]

Frank Thomas was beyond the best at his position him and Ken Griffy were neck and neck for best in the league. He's got two MVP awards. The last two years of his thirties he hit a combined 65 home runs thats pretty damn good.

[Slagaholic]

Originally Posted by Stennick

Frank Thomas was beyond the best at his position him and Ken Griffy were neck and neck for best in the league. He's got two MVP awards. The last two years of his thirties he hit a combined 65 home runs thats pretty damn good.

Especially when you consider that he did that with a grand total of half a knee.

[GatorBait19]

Originally Posted by Stennick

Frank Thomas was beyond the best at his position him and Ken Griffy were neck and neck for best in the league. He's got two MVP awards. The last two years of his thirties he hit a combined 65 home runs thats pretty damn good.

see you are saying that based on stats, remember defense? Thomas was never considered a top 15 first basemen defensively

But I can think of many 1B

Jeff Bagwell, Mark Grace (not a power guy, but all around good player).

But once again this isn't mean knocking Thomas, stats wise he is in but the Hall doesn't just look at stats anymore, they look at everything. To me Bagwell was a much better player than Thomas ever will be.

From his swing (a very sweet swing) but look at the stats

Bags: AVG. .297; HR 449; RBI 1529, Walks 1401; SO 1558; OBP .408; SLG .540; SB 202; CS 72; Triples 32; Doubles 488; Hits; 2314; plus a gold glove and MVP

http://www.baseball-reference.com/pl...01.shtml?redir

Now before I tell you Thomas' stats, Frank and Bags were actually born on the same exact day and year, so they are the same age. For Fairness I will cut them both off at 05 to compare their stats next to each other up to the time Bags retired

Thomas: AVG: .301; HR 440; RBI 1435; Walks 1420; SO 1108; OPS .419; SLG. 555; SB 32; CS 23; Triples 12; Doubles 495; Hits 2077;

http://www.baseball-reference.com/pl...04.shtml?redir

Great stats by both but to me Bags was the better athlete, better glove, and a better 1B then Thomas



P.S Truly odd they had the same birthday, also they both won their first MVP at the same time but Bags was the ML MVP as well as NL, didn't know that was an award

[GatorBait19]

Originally Posted by Stennick

Frank Thomas was beyond the best at his position him and Ken Griffy were neck and neck for best in the league. He's got two MVP awards. The last two years of his thirties he hit a combined 65 home runs thats pretty damn good.

also no offense but no one touched Griffey, great all around, injuries truly destroied what I consider the best all around player probably ever, he is the Jerry Rice of the MLB

[PeterHilton]

Originally Posted by GatorBait19

see you are saying that based on stats, remember defense? Thomas was never considered a top 15 first basemen defensively

But I can think of many 1B

Jeff Bagwell, Mark Grace (not a power guy, but all around good player).

But once again this isn't mean knocking Thomas, stats wise he is in but the Hall doesn't just look at stats anymore, they look at everything. To me Bagwell was a much better player than Thomas ever will be.

From his swing (a very sweet swing) but look at the stats

Bags: AVG. .297; HR 449; RBI 1529, Walks 1401; SO 1558; OBP .408; SLG .540; SB 202; CS 72; Triples 32; Doubles 488; Hits; 2314; plus a gold glove and MVP

http://www.baseball-reference.com/pl...01.shtml?redir

Now before I tell you Thomas' stats, Frank and Bags were actually born on the same exact day and year, so they are the same age. For Fairness I will cut them both off at 05 to compare their stats next to each other up to the time Bags retired

Thomas: AVG: .301; HR 440; RBI 1435; Walks 1420; SO 1108; OPS .419; SLG. 555; SB 32; CS 23; Triples 12; Doubles 495; Hits 2077;

http://www.baseball-reference.com/pl...04.shtml?redir

Great stats by both but to me Bags was the better athlete, better glove, and a better 1B then Thomas



P.S Truly odd they had the same birthday, also they both won their first MVP at the same time but Bags was the ML MVP as well as NL, didn't know that was an award

Great argument. I would say that shows that Bagwell should definitely be a HOFer too.

[GatorBait19]

Originally Posted by PeterHilton

Great argument. I would say that shows that Bagwell should definitely be a HOFer too.

Thank and once again I am not knocking Thomas, I think he was a great player with great stats, just not the best at his position at any one given time, sure maybe in the AL he ruled the 1B position for 6 years or whatever, but I believe until the emergence of Albert P. Bags was the man, he was more athletic, was more durable, better glove, and a great bat.

Today the people who vote players in look at a lot more than HR, if it weren't true Jim Rice would have been a first ballot, but many things go into it


Look at Dick LeBeau of the Steelers, the man is the 8th on the all-time INT leaders, just being passed for 7th this year by Sharper, has had tons of great Defensive teams, and just not got into the hall

They look at everything now, if you had a crappy relationship with the media (Bonds, Rice) they will keep you out of it, if you were a bad person on the outside of the game (Irvin) they will make you wait, numbers don't do it anymore, a lot more goes into it

[PeterHilton]

Originally Posted by GatorBait19

Thank and once again I am not knocking Thomas, I think he was a great player with great stats, just not the best at his position at any one given time, sure maybe in the AL he ruled the 1B position for 6 years or whatever, but I believe until the emergence of Albert P. Bags was the man, he was more athletic, was more durable, better glove, and a great bat.

Today the people who vote players in look at a lot more than HR, if it weren't true Jim Rice would have been a first ballot, but many things go into it


Look at Dick LeBeau of the Steelers, the man is the 8th on the all-time INT leaders, just being passed for 7th this year by Sharper, has had tons of great Defensive teams, and just not got into the hall

They look at everything now, if you had a crappy relationship with the media (Bonds, Rice) they will keep you out of it, if you were a bad person on the outside of the game (Irvin) they will make you wait, numbers don't do it anymore, a lot more goes into it

I think you're overstating the obvious here. The voters have ALWAYS looked at everything. That's why a true DH still isn't represented.

Rice was hurt by his relationship with the media, but his numbers also weren't exactly overwhelming (not even 400 HR or 1500 RBI at a power premium position).

Plus he was hurt because his candidacy came along right when offensive numbers exploded ...lotta 80 guys started looking bad in comparison: Garvey, Carter, Murphy etc

Frank Thomas put up historically significant numbers. He was bad in the field, and you could argue he wasn't the TOP 1b in the majors, but there's no way he's not in the HOF.