Official MLB Discussion Thread

[BHK1978]

Originally Posted by Stennick

It all depends really Washington has some guys in the farm system so whos to say what will happen in six years. Remember there was a time Tampa was awful as well and now look at them. Six years is a lot of time to turn something around and I think their trying to put the pieces together.

Yeah but how long can a team like Tampa Bay stay together? The minute their players come up for free agency big market teams will snatch them up.

[Stennick]

Yeah but like you guys said if they got six years before their free agents thats a solid six year run very few teams not named the Yankees and Sox hold onto a team for more than six years and the thought process is to then continue to develop players to take their place.

Thats the theory anyway Oakland has done well for themselves by trading away big stars and staying on top. Oakland and Tampa are really the first teams in a while to employ the farm system strategy.

Although my own St. Louis Cards have had Pujols, Molina, Wainwright, and some others have all came up through the system and we've used other guys like Brett Wallace, Clay Mortenson, Perez, etc. to get guys like Holliday.

[GatorBait19]

Originally Posted by BHK1978

Yeah but how long can a team like Tampa Bay stay together? The minute their players come up for free agency big market teams will snatch them up.

Remember the Twins trade away players when they can't resign them, the Rays will do the same, even if the Rays are in first and second they will still listen for offers for Pena and Crawford

Also, the Rays became good not just because of a great farm system, but more because they were patience with their talent, they didn't rush Longo to the big show, alongside Niemann, Price, Davis. They let them develop and it has worked nicely for them

[GatorBait19]

Originally Posted by Stennick

Yeah but like you guys said if they got six years before their free agents thats a solid six year run very few teams not named the Yankees and Sox hold onto a team for more than six years and the thought process is to then continue to develop players to take their place.

Thats the theory anyway Oakland has done well for themselves by trading away big stars and staying on top. Oakland and Tampa are really the first teams in a while to employ the farm system strategy.

Although my own St. Louis Cards have had Pujols, Molina, Wainwright, and some others have all came up through the system and we've used other guys like Brett Wallace, Clay Mortenson, Perez, etc. to get guys like Holliday.

Twins, Redsox, and Marlins as well. Yes, the soxs spend money in the free agent market, but they also have a mix of their own players paps, dustin, Jacob, Jed Lowire (when he gets healthy), Lester, Buckholtz, just to name a few. Also remember the best SS in the game was trade to the Marlins from the Soxs

[Slagaholic]

Originally Posted by GatorBait19

Remember the Twins trade away players when they can't resign them, the Rays will do the same, even if the Rays are in first and second they will still listen for offers for Pena and Crawford

Also, the Rays became good not just because of a great farm system, but more because they were patience with their talent, they didn't rush Longo to the big show, alongside Niemann, Price, Davis. They let them develop and it has worked nicely for them

The Rays also had a decade full of top draft picks. They're a well built team, but when I talk about a team re-building the last team I point to, that's turned it around, are the Rays.

[GatorBait19]

Originally Posted by Slagaholic

The Rays also had a decade full of top draft picks. They're a well built team, but when I talk about a team re-building the last team I point to, that's turned it around, are the Rays.

can you explain that please, it has me confused, are you saying they will be able to rebuild quickly next year or saying it will take a while?


and also remember about the rays great draft success has only come recently. New ownership and GM took over in 2005 (offseason, but played a big part in the 04 draft)

so now we look at who the first front office drafted

names like Upton, Crawford, Huff (a 5th rounder), Shields(16th round), Rocco, Dukes, and Young (Hamilton too if you want) now only 3 remain and only One has been an all-star while Upton tries to find sucess and Shields is getting back to 08 form


New Office has found the likes of Niemann, Brignac, Davis, Longoria, Price, made trades for Soriano (closer) Bartlett, and Garza and signed Pena

in fact out of 7 drafts the Rays have been apart before the new ownership took over in which we had a first round pick, the rays failed horribly, only collecting three solid everyday starters for themselves and 6 all together, and Huff and Shields wont be apart of this next number because it's top three rounds only and in 1998 we had no picks in the first three rounds (due to free agent signings) and in 2000 no picks in the 2nd,3rd, or 4th so out of 20 picks 2 are still with the Rays and 5 are still playing ball big league ball.

The Rays pretty much wasted years of top draft picks because they rushed them to fast or people failed for other reasons (i.e Rocco and Josh H.)

[BHK1978]

Originally Posted by GatorBait19

Twins, Redsox, and Marlins as well. Yes, the soxs spend money in the free agent market, but they also have a mix of their own players paps, dustin, Jacob, Jed Lowire (when he gets healthy), Lester, Buckholtz, just to name a few. Also remember the best SS in the game was trade to the Marlins from the Soxs

When was Jeter in the Red Sox minor league system!

[CQI13]

Originally Posted by GatorBait19

can you explain that please, it has me confused, are you saying they will be able to rebuild quickly next year or saying it will take a while?


and also remember about the rays great draft success has only come recently. New ownership and GM took over in 2005 (offseason, but played a big part in the 04 draft)

so now we look at who the first front office drafted

names like Upton, Crawford, Huff (a 5th rounder), Shields(16th round), Rocco, Dukes, and Young (Hamilton too if you want) now only 3 remain and only One has been an all-star while Upton tries to find sucess and Shields is getting back to 08 form


New Office has found the likes of Niemann, Brignac, Davis, Longoria, Price, made trades for Soriano (closer) Bartlett, and Garza and signed Pena

in fact out of 7 drafts the Rays have been apart before the new ownership took over in which we had a first round pick, the rays failed horribly, only collecting three solid everyday starters for themselves and 6 all together, and Huff and Shields wont be apart of this next number because it's top three rounds only and in 1998 we had no picks in the first three rounds (due to free agent signings) and in 2000 no picks in the 2nd,3rd, or 4th so out of 20 picks 2 are still with the Rays and 5 are still playing ball big league ball.

The Rays pretty much wasted years of top draft picks because they rushed them to fast or people failed for other reasons (i.e Rocco and Josh H.)

But they had access to those picks. It's just like you expect the Clippers to be good with that many top picks in basketball. The fact that they've been squandered by their front office doesn't take away from the fact that they had the picks to begin with.

[GatorBait19]

Originally Posted by BHK1978

When was Jeter in the Red Sox minor league system!

lol when has he ever been the best SS lmao sorry had to

[GatorBait19]

Originally Posted by Slagaholic

The Rays also had a decade full of top draft picks. They're a well built team, but when I talk about a team re-building the last team I point to, that's turned it around, are the Rays.

Originally Posted by CQI13

But they had access to those picks. It's just like you expect the Clippers to be good with that many top picks in basketball. The fact that they've been squandered by their front office doesn't take away from the fact that they had the picks to begin with.

you said they had a decade full of top picks, so I took it as you were saying they hit on all their top picks.

and teams don't need top picks to be great, look at players like Crawford, Pedroia, Pujols, Mike Pizza, Kenny Rogers, Roy Oswalt, Dan Uggla, Mike Lowell, Jason Bay.

So top picks don't mean a org. will be great, it's the middle where you find the role players and final pieces.

But I agree, Rays are a great team right now and are loaded still in the farm system with names like Beckham, McGee, Hellickson, Jennings, Joyce ect. waiting to fill people's shoes, and Tampa still has the number 1 farm system, even after failing to sign their top two picks last year and bringing up their number 1 pitcher and number 4 and 8 prospects in Brignac and Sean Rod.

[BHK1978]

Pizza had to be one of the best draft pickups in the history of Baseball in my opinion. I mean for what he turned into and where he was picked, talk about value.

Maybe as a Yankee fan I see this more than if I were a fan of another team. However, I think the Yankees have been good at finding some gems in the draft over the past twenty years of so. And they have been able to move some of those players for players that they need. All though that trade with Detroit looks like it is going to bite them where the sun don't shine.

[GatorBait19]

Originally Posted by BHK1978

Pizza had to be one of the best draft pickups in the history of Baseball in my opinion. I mean for what he turned into and where he was picked, talk about value.

Maybe as a Yankee fan I see this more than if I were a fan of another team. However, I think the Yankees have been good at finding some gems in the draft over the past twenty years of so. And they have been able to move some of those players for players that they need. All though that trade with Detroit looks like it is going to bite them where the sun don't shine.

do you remember Buhner lol, but I don't know from 00-07

2000: Best pick Sean Henn
2001: Shelley Duncan
2002: Phil Coke
2003: Tyler Clippard
2004: Phil Hughes
2005: Austin Jackson..... oh wait
2006: Joba and Ian (Joba might be your next closer)
2007: Can't tell yet

so from the start it was horrible, but you guys have improved

but 97 to 05 (remember Hughes is the only one to make it so far from that 04 draft) has been horrible and most of it is the constant free agents they sign

[Stennick]

Originally Posted by GatorBait19

Remember the Twins trade away players when they can't resign them, the Rays will do the same, even if the Rays are in first and second they will still listen for offers for Pena and Crawford

Also, the Rays became good not just because of a great farm system, but more because they were patience with their talent, they didn't rush Longo to the big show, alongside Niemann, Price, Davis. They let them develop and it has worked nicely for them

I guess that depends on the trade but it would have to be a hell of a trade to trade away either of those guys if they were in first or second.

[BHK1978]

Okay I am putting down names of players that turned into good major league players that either stayed with the Yankees or were let go by them via trade or free agency. Remember I am just talking about who they drafted and not what they did for the team.

1990: Andy Pettitte possible Hall of Famer (might not be because of the roids and his numbers might not be strong enough).

Jorge Posada a durable Catcher who has helped them win and win a lot.

Carl Everett: Went on to have a decent Major League career

1991: I refuse to talk about the blight that was Brien Taylor.

1992: They drafted Jeter who is a future Hall of Famer

1995: Mike Lowell turned into a very good 3B.

1996: Nick Johnson who became a decent utility player.

2005: Brett Gardner who is a decent player who has helped the team out.

Also guys like Ricky Ledee who may have not turned into great players but were traded for good players.

[Stennick]

I thought their track record was better than that. Its not bad but its also not great. Then again I remember hearing about how Jr. really revitalized the farm system for NY refocusing on it. In the last few years it looked like they had an entire starting rotation coming up with Joba, Ian, Hughes and somebody else I can't remember.

The Cardinals have had just off the top of my head.

Danny Haren (2nd in Cy Young voting on two occasions I think)
Adam Wainwright (3rd in Cy Young voting last year)
Albert Pujols
Yadier Molina (argubably the best defensive catcher in baseball)
Skip Schumaker (.300 hitter over the last four seasons)
Brendan Ryan (gold glove caliber SS for the last two years)
Brett Wallace (we traded him for Matt Holliday)
J.D Drew
Colby Rasmus (still unproven but A graded minor leaguer and so called five tool player)
Placido Polanco
Adam Kennedy

There are other unknown prospects we've traded for guys like Mulder, DeRosa, etc.

As it stands right now this year

C - Molina (farm system)
1B - Pujols (farm syste)
2B Skip Schumaker - .306 hitter the last 4 yrs he's been on the team (farm system
SS - Brendan Ryan - 98.5 fielding ptg, .294 hitter last year (farm system)
3B - David Freese (rookie year)
CF - Colby Rasmus (sophmore year) 280 avg, 6 HR (farm system)

Wainwright 5-1 2.08 ERA (farm system)
Jamie Garcia 4-2, 1.42 ERA

looking at this years numbers so far and realizing that nearly our entire starting team has been taken from our farm system in the last five years is pretty damn impressive.