Official MLB Discussion Thread

[GatorBait19]

Originally Posted by PeterHilton

I think you're overstating the obvious here. The voters have ALWAYS looked at everything. That's why a true DH still isn't represented.

Rice was hurt by his relationship with the media, but his numbers also weren't exactly overwhelming (not even 400 HR or 1500 RBI at a power premium position).

Plus he was hurt because his candidacy came along right when offensive numbers exploded ...lotta 80 guys started looking bad in comparison: Garvey, Carter, Murphy etc

Frank Thomas put up historically significant numbers. He was bad in the field, and you could argue he wasn't the TOP 1b in the majors, but there's no way he's not in the HOF.

I believe i said Rice had a bad relationship with them, but also Rice was considered the best LF of his time, and lead the league in HR three times, and RBI 4 I believe.

but enough of this, Thomas will be a Hall of Famer, congrats, next name


Bagwell will go in this year in my opinnion

Larry Walker; With out a doubt, based off stats, but Injuries and the Coors effect will play into it

Edgar Martinez; Great hitter, one of the best in modern age, but didn't play D

John Olerud; consistent, had two great years

McGwire; Finally came clean, so does this help his standing?

Rafael Palmeiro; Another great player at 1B but a roid user

Juan Gonzalez; Has been linked but never found to have done roids, to me his head never got bigger, but was a great player

Kevin Brown; Very talented pitcher, injuries killed him

[BHK1978]

Originally Posted by GatorBait19

also no offense but no one touched Griffey, great all around, injuries truly destroied what I consider the best all around player probably ever, he is the Jerry Rice of the MLB

Sorry but I have to disagree with you. Nobody compares to Babe Ruth (and I am not saying that because I am a Yankee fan). Babe Ruth is the best player in the history of the game hands down! Was Griffey a great pitcher as well? Until somebody comes along who can be a top notch pitcher and the greatest home run hitter of all time, nobody can lay claim that they are better than the Babe.

[GatorBait19]

hmm, very true, Babe was the best baseball player ever (so far)

I guess I should rephrase my self, Griffey is the best all around athlete in baseball

[BHK1978]

Originally Posted by GatorBait19

hmm, very true, Babe was the best baseball player ever (so far)

I guess I should rephrase my self, Griffey is the best all around athlete in baseball

Well there is no argument with me as to who the better athlete was. The fat man or The Kid.

Willie Mays might be up there with Griffey as well and maybe even Mantle (As both guys were fast and great OF's. Even though Mickey played on a bad leg for most of his career).

[GatorBait19]

okay for gigles everyone make a team, 25 players who you would want on your team right now, Past and present, just starters and one closer though



C- Ivan "Pudge" Rodriguez; Probably the greatest catcher ever, great defense, and very soild offense (.299 average), Johnny Bench's career AVG played a part as well

1B- Albert Pujols; yes there have been many greats here Lou Gehrig, Jimmie Foxx, but this man, can hit, play defense (2006 Gold Glove) and plays many different positions (started in LF, played some RF, 3B, 1B, and yes even SS) oh and if it wasn't for a man named Barry Bonds and cheating this man could have had 6 MVP's before he even turned 30

2B- Roberto Alomar; Jackie Robison was close but the defense this man gave, plus the ability to hit and steal made him a the man to me, sorry eddie collins and joe morgan

SS- Ozzie Smith; The Wizard, I sacrificed power (A-rod) and all around hitting for a great middle infield, yes A-rod has won gold gloves before but Ozzie was a defensive player through and through

3B- Mike Schmidt; A sacrifice in AVG, but power and the glove were always there, Brooks Robison got beat out because of the power numbers

LF- Ted Williams; sorry Stan Musial, you were great but Ted was the LF man

CF- Ken Griffey Jr; The reason I went with JR or mayes (besides the whole best athlete thing is) Griffey in 300 less games is only 30 HR's away from Mayes and I believe still to this day that without the injuires with the Reds this man would be number one all-time on most offensive and defensive cat. (gold gloves)

RF- Hank Aaron; Reason I choose him over Ruth is simple, he was a much better athlete, and in this line up, you can tell defenisve ablitiy does play a roll

DH- Babe Ruth; 1 MVP and 2 All-Star games.... Really, because I would do AL I have the luxury of letting Babe focus just on hitting, what a great player

Batting Order

1) Roberto Alamor
2) Ivan Rodriguez
3) Ken Griffey Jr.
4) Babe Ruth
5) Ted Williams
6) Albert Pujlos
7) Hank Aaron
8) Mike Schmidt
9) Ozzie Smith



Pitching

1) Left Grove; Don't know the name, look it up. I read books about this guy growing up, and when you can post a .680 winning % you are starting with me, plus the 300 wins, and the innings he can eat

2) Pedro Martinez; Hands down probably the most wicked stuff I have ever seen

3) Tom Seaver; Great pitcher, need I say more

4) Walter Johnson; Man won 2 MVP's..... as a pitcher, 2nd all-time in wins

5) Sandy Koufax; hey you win 65% of the time and you can start here


Closer- Mariano Rivera; Listen this guy is the greatest, might not hold the record for most saves ever, and does struggle some years, but would you be willing to give any other pitcher the ball with the basesload and no outs in the last inning of the seven game of the world seires........ it's okay, ill wait

[BHK1978]

C- Johnny Bench, I had to put my mother’s favorite player on here. Also, he was one heck of a great catcher which is the real reason why he is on this list. Side note, both Yogi and Ernie Lombardi came close but at the end of the day Johnny to me is just a better fit.

1B- Lou Gehrig, I honestly believe he is one of the best if not the best First Baseman in baseball history. And it is not because I am a Yankee fan.

2B- Rod Carew, yes I know he played first base as well, but he is listed in the HOF as a 2B and I needed some more offense out of my infield. And if anybody fit’s the bill it would be Rod Carew.


3B- Brooks Robinson, I am going to throw Brooks in as my defensive third baseman. Yes offensively he was not fantastic but the guy was awesome defensively.


SS- Ozzie Smith, The Wizard of OZ was a fantastic defensive player much like with Brooks he is here for defensive purposes over his offensive numbers. And he had great speed as well.

LF-Ted Williams, as much as it pains me to put a Red Sox player on here. Ted does belong here. In my opinion he is the best hitter for AVG. ever. And if he did not go to both World War II and Korea he may have ranked up there on the HR list with Ruth and Aaron.

CF- Willie Mays, there a so many great CF’s who have played the game (heck the Yankees have two, who in my opinion would be right behind Willie). However, if you are looking for the ultimate five tool star here he is.

RF- Hank Aaron, this was another tough call because I really wanted to put down Tony Gwynn because he along with Albert Pujols are two of the best hitters I have seen actually play. However, at the end of the day Hank was a great home run hitter, hit for average, and played good defensively. And we all know Tony was no homerun hitter.

DH- Babe Ruth, following Gator’s lead I shall also put Babe in this slot as well. To me he is the best home run hitter of all time (Hank Aaron had a lot more AB’s and played in a longer season than Ruth did. And I am not going to even put Bonds into this because who knows how many “clean” homeruns he hit).

P- Sandy Koufax, his stats speak for themselves. Also it is always good to have a great lefty on your staff.

P- Cy Young, who am I to argue against the guy who has a pitching award named after him, for the best pitchers in the game? He also has the most wins of any pitcher in the history of the game, and he could go on short rest if need be.

P- Walter Johnson, the guy was a strikeout machine! Is there any other reason why not to have him on board?

P- Bob Gibson, for the intimidation factor alone. Just look it old footage of this guy, he looks like he wants to kill the batter (All though he said in an interview that he was not trying to intimidate the batters he just could not see the signs that Tim McCarver threw down).

P- Nolan Ryan, yeah his winning % was not all that great, just above .500. But I figure as long as my fictional team is not playing in NYC we should be okay. Nolan is another strikeout machine, and those seven no-hitters are not to shabby either.

Closer- Mariano Rivera, he is without a doubt the best ever in my book. Very few closers last year in and year out in that role and remain good. Mo has been able to do so. Now granted up where I live (in the heart of Red Sox nation), I always here idiot fans trying to compare Papelbon to him. And quite a few say that Papelbon is much better, but they know not what they speak of.

The only knock I have against Mo is that damn Diamondbacks series, which Gator eluded to. To this day I get pissed off when I think about that, even over the 04 series with the Red Sox, the Diamondbacks were in no way, shape, or form the better team and yet they won! Thanks for reminding me of that Gator…

As for a batting order, well I am not that great as a manager (I suck at OOTP) so I will leave that to the smarter baseball minds.

[GatorBait19]

Originally Posted by BHK1978

C- Johnny Bench, I had to put my mother’s favorite player on here. Also, he was one heck of a great catcher which is the real reason why he is on this list. Side note, both Yogi and Ernie Lombardi came close but at the end of the day Johnny to me is just a better fit.

1B- Lou Gehrig, I honestly believe he is one of the best if not the best First Baseman in baseball history. And it is not because I am a Yankee fan.

2B- Rod Carew, yes I know he played first base as well, but he is listed in the HOF as a 2B and I needed some more offense out of my infield. And if anybody fit’s the bill it would be Rod Carew.


3B- Brooks Robinson, I am going to throw Brooks in as my defensive third baseman. Yes offensively he was not fantastic but the guy was awesome defensively.


SS- Ozzie Smith, The Wizard of OZ was a fantastic defensive player much like with Brooks he is here for defensive purposes over his offensive numbers. And he had great speed as well.

LF-Ted Williams, as much as it pains me to put a Red Sox player on here. Ted does belong here. In my opinion he is the best hitter for AVG. ever. And if he did not go to both World War II and Korea he may have ranked up there on the HR list with Ruth and Aaron.

CF- Willie Mays, there a so many great CF’s who have played the game (heck the Yankees have two, who in my opinion would be right behind Willie). However, if you are looking for the ultimate five tool star here he is.

RF- Hank Aaron, this was another tough call because I really wanted to put down Tony Gwynn because he along with Albert Pujols are two of the best hitters I have seen actually play. However, at the end of the day Hank was a great home run hitter, hit for average, and played good defensively. And we all know Tony was no homerun hitter.

DH- Babe Ruth, following Gator’s lead I shall also put Babe in this slot as well. To me he is the best home run hitter of all time (Hank Aaron had a lot more AB’s and played in a longer season than Ruth did. And I am not going to even put Bonds into this because who knows how many “clean” homeruns he hit).

P- Sandy Koufax, his stats speak for themselves. Also it is always good to have a great lefty on your staff.

P- Cy Young, who am I to argue against the guy who has a pitching award named after him, for the best pitchers in the game? He also has the most wins of any pitcher in the history of the game, and he could go on short rest if need be.

P- Walter Johnson, the guy was a strikeout machine! Is there any other reason why not to have him on board?

P- Bob Gibson, for the intimidation factor alone. Just look it old footage of this guy, he looks like he wants to kill the batter (All though he said in an interview that he was not trying to intimidate the batters he just could not see the signs that Tim McCarver threw down).

P- Nolan Ryan, yeah his winning % was not all that great, just above .500. But I figure as long as my fictional team is not playing in NYC we should be okay. Nolan is another strikeout machine, and those seven no-hitters are not to shabby either.

Closer- Mariano Rivera, he is without a doubt the best ever in my book. Very few closers last year in and year out in that role and remain good. Mo has been able to do so. Now granted up where I live (in the heart of Red Sox nation), I always here idiot fans trying to compare Papelbon to him. And quite a few say that Papelbon is much better, but they know not what they speak of.

The only knock I have against Mo is that damn Diamondbacks series, which Gator eluded to. To this day I get pissed off when I think about that, even over the 04 series with the Red Sox, the Diamondbacks were in no way, shape, or form the better team and yet they won! Thanks for reminding me of that Gator…

As for a batting order, well I am not that great as a manager (I suck at OOTP) so I will leave that to the smarter baseball minds.

I like your pick of Brooks I really do (at 3B) it was between Evan Longoria, Brooks, and Schmidt, I choose Schmidt because even is still only 2 years into this, and Schmidt also had a wonderful glove (not like Brooks and his 16 Gold Gloves, but 10 is still impressive) but he also had the power numbers to play the position

[BHK1978]

Originally Posted by GatorBait19

I like your pick of Brooks I really do (at 3B) it was between Evan Longoria, Brooks, and Schmidt, I choose Schmidt because even is still only 2 years into this, and Schmidt also had a wonderful glove (not like Brooks and his 16 Gold Gloves, but 10 is still impressive) but he also had the power numbers to play the position

I had a hard time with putting current players on the list because you just do not know where they will end up. If you would have asked me back in the mid-1990's I would have said for sure Chuck Knoblauch would have been a Hall of Famer. However, we all know how that turned out.

And I couldn't argue with Schmidt, he was a great player. I really wasn't sure if I wanted to go with Brooks, Schmidt, or Wade Boggs. At the end I went with Brooks, but any of those three could have made it.

[BHK1978]

Here is a topic that I hear a lot about, mostly because I am surrounded by Red Sox fans. Do you think Derek Jeter should be a first ballot Hall of Famer?

I say yes, but a lot of people that I know say no. In fact a lot of people say he should not even get into the hall ever. So what does everybody else think?

[Remianen]

Jeter is a first ballot Hall of Famer. Anyone who says different is a moron. I'd have to think about my team a little more. One thing I will say is home runs aren't going to be a focus of mine. I prefer speed over the long ball every day of the week. A team of burners would ALWAYS have RISP, you wouldn't need home runs when the team is running laps around the bases and chasing the pitcher(s) out of the game (pitch counts ftw!). So as much as I love the Splendid Splinter, Rickey Henderson's my left fielder (Williams would be DH). In school, people always thought I wore 33 because of Canseco. Wrong. Add 24 and 9 and see what you get. Besides those two, I'll have to think about it a bit more.

[BHK1978]

Originally Posted by Remianen

Jeter is a first ballot Hall of Famer. Anyone who says different is a moron. I'd have to think about my team a little more. One thing I will say is home runs aren't going to be a focus of mine. I prefer speed over the long ball every day of the week. A team of burners would ALWAYS have RISP, you wouldn't need home runs when the team is running laps around the bases and chasing the pitcher(s) out of the game (pitch counts ftw!). So as much as I love the Splendid Splinter, Rickey Henderson's my left fielder (Williams would be DH). In school, people always thought I wore 33 because of Canseco. Wrong. Add 24 and 9 and see what you get. Besides those two, I'll have to think about it a bit more.

I thought about Rickey as well, but Teddy Ballgame is just a better hitter. So you are probably going for a more National League style team?

[GatorBait19]

To me Ricky and Jeter are both first ballot with out a doubt.

Jeter is the best SS ever in Yankee history and has been a leader his whole time there, Henderson set records that were never meant to be set by a lead-off hitter


here is a better question..... does anyone believe Nomar is a hall of famer? injuries messed his whole career up, so I honestly say no, not when you have people like Jeter and A-Rod who were always considered better SS then you

[BHK1978]

Originally Posted by GatorBait19

To me Ricky and Jeter are both first ballot with out a doubt.

Jeter is the best SS ever in Yankee history and has been a leader his whole time there, Henderson set records that were never meant to be set by a lead-off hitter


here is a better question..... does anyone believe Nomar is a hall of famer? injuries messed his whole career up, so I honestly say no, not when you have people like Jeter and A-Rod who were always considered better SS then you

Sorry should have made that clear Ricky is already in the HOF. I was talking about how I was thinking about putting him on my team.

As for Nomar, that is a tough one. Like you said injuries really destroyed a great career. I really can not see him getting into the hall because the stats are just not there.

[The Final Countdown]

Originally Posted by GatorBait19

here is a better question..... does anyone believe Nomar is a hall of famer? injuries messed his whole career up, so I honestly say no, not when you have people like Jeter and A-Rod who were always considered better SS then you

I don't see any way Nomar is getting in the hall.

As for Jeter, he's an obvious lock, but I don't know or care whether he's a "first ballot" inductee. I find the whole "first ballot" thing to be contrived and stupid. You're either a Hall of Famer, or you're not. The whole point of the HOF is to recognize the best of the best, and I don't see the point of adding another layer of separation. It's not like a guy's numbers get any better in his 2nd year of eligibility.

[BHK1978]

Originally Posted by The Final Countdown

I don't see any way Nomar is getting in the hall.

As for Jeter, he's an obvious lock, but I don't know or care whether he's a "first ballot" inductee. I find the whole "first ballot" thing to be contrived and stupid. You're either a Hall of Famer, or you're not. The whole point of the HOF is to recognize the best of the best, and I don't see the point of adding another layer of separation. It's not like a guy's numbers get any better in his 2nd year of eligibility.

I couldn't have said it any better (No honestly I really could not have said it any better, you've seen all of the typos in my posts.)!

The thing is sometimes player who are not hall of famers get in. For instance, in my opinion Phil Rizzuto does not belong in the HOF as a player. Maybe as a broadcaster but not as a player. And yet he made it into the Hall of Fame via the Veterans Committee. Like Final Countdown said, had his stats changed over the thirty years from when he retired to when he was elected into the Hall of Fame?